ATP Flight School and Fast Track program
 

I have heard a lot about the ATP Flight Schools across the U.S and varied comments about them either being a waste of time and not worth the money, or just as good as any other school. I have about 300 hrs, most in multi-engine turbo props and have my single and multi, commercial instrument ratings. Would a school like ATP be worth attending to get my CFI to accrue hours in order to obtain my ATP and fly for the airlines? I'm seeing lots of "guarantees" about placement with the airlines right now, but I'm wary of those sorts of promises. Any one actually attending one of these schools across the U.S who can tell me about them?

As I posted on the other thread, check out 'Flight Training' magazine through the aopa.org website.

Do some research before sending off any $$.

Atp
 

Well, their operation out of Sac Executive delivers none of the promises stated in there corporate flyers. My son started there in Feb. and they cancelled the first 3 out of 5 flights and not because of weather or mechanicals. They couldn't cover the schedule and there instructors are raw. It was a waist of time and money and they didn't bother to help him when he voiced his concerns.

I know SEVERAL cfi's that went to ATP and now are thousands of dollars in debt (granted this was for their entire training. You can't get your money back if you drop out) and hated every minute of their time at this place. The common denominator among these guys is that they fell for their marketing strategies, this is how they get you. Do yourself a favor and avoid ATP

There's a thread on Jetcareers authored by a fellow who recently started down the path at AllATPs. Maybe you would find his commentary useful.

I did several ratings at AllATPs and found the quality of instruction was good and had no complaints. All four of the instructors I dealt with CFI'd until they had their 1500 hours and then left for the regionals. If they hated their time there they did a good job of keeping it to themselves.

I also did a rating at Aerosim in Sanford, FL, and it was a slow and drawn out process. I don't think I would enjoy instructing there.

My guess is that some AllATP locations are better than others.

Bingo!

I've been told that is the case.

I wouldn't suggest working for them. I know many people who have been there for years because they can't get the hours the need to move on to the airlines. The management is horrible and treats you like crap. You get the weekends off but only if you student is on track, that means they haven't missed a day due to weather, illness or maintenance, which isn't going to happen. Most CFIs that work there are looking at other jobs. I know of one guys that got fired recently because he told a new student that she was doing something wrong. She complained to the management and they told him "We would rather have a bad instructor with a good attitude than a good one with a bad attitude." Get your ratings and then get out, you do not want to work for them.

Just getting started
 

I have been at ATP since March 6Th...So far I like the training I have received. I am sure it all depends on the instructor you get as I am sure there are bad apples. My instructor is very good. He started the program about 2 years ago and has an interview this week with Endeavor Air (I do believe). A lot of the ground school information is self study even though we do have ground school with as much flying as we do there is not enough time to spend on ground school. They have online moduels that you must complete for the ground portion. I feel as long as you put the time in to study and learn the information that you should be fine. This is a very fast pasted program and is not for someone who is lazy or thinks they can slide by.

As for the cost I would not be able to become a pilot without financing it. Not just to go to ATP but even a mom and pop shop. I would rather finance my training and know that is will take me around 6 months to have my CFI's and around 2 years to get a "real" job then spend 10 years trying to pay lesson by lesson. Just my thought I could be wrong.

You'll know for sure when you are trying to buy a house 10 years later. :)

:We already have a 10 acre farm ;)

Check the flight school EPIC in FL. They have a partnership with TSA for building hours and access to CFI.

I went to ATP, and I loved it. They don't hold your hand. I was in the short course for instructor school, and I ended up getting about three weeks total for all three CFI rides thanks to the 4th of July holiday, and a hurricane that closed Fl down and backed up other checkrides ahead of me. They don't hold your hand. They are there to fly you, and get you into self study mode. They know what the checkride consists of, who the examiners are, and what they'll ask. There are gouges for all of them, and they work.

As for instructing there. Do it. They have housing available for the instructors at a very reasonable rate (if you need it), and you will fly your ass off if you are in the right location. Make sure you are at a school in the south. Phoenix, Dallas, Fort Lauderdale, and Atlanta all fly a ton. You don't want to go up north where you won't have 300 VFR days a year.

Anyone have any information about the location in Oakland, CA (hayward)?

I am very near finishing my PPL and I'm strongly considering ATP for the full time Instrument - CFI course. I would not need to go into debt to finance this program, and I would prefer not to have to move (I live in the bay area). I know that at ATP, the quality of the program can depend on the location a lot. I haven't heard much about this location.

Also, what are the probabilities that as a CFI you could choose your location to instruct?

Similar question here, except about the program in Denver. Lots of sunny days here...

I filled out their online information request and they have called me several times. Decided to put off hearing the sales pitch until I know a bit more about it.

It's one thing to train at ATP which I would not recommend, but it's another to instruct there. Have you asked their sales team what your hourly wage as an instructor would be? It's less than $12 an hour. Do you know they get paid zero dollars for ground? Have some self respect and go work for any other school out there. Not sure where you live but in San Diego independent contractors charge $65 an hour. If you don't want to find your own clients, every other school pays between $25 and $40 an hour (ground and flight time). ATPs who gimmick historically has been to get your loads of multi time. If your goal is the airlines all you need is 25 hours multi and you will get the rest in the Sim, you really have no reason to go there. Keep doing your research and make the decision for yourself, but be weary of ATPs empty promises.

I don't believe that to be true based on people I know instructing.

The OP already has multi turbo prop time and wanted advice from anyone in the know about whether or not ATP would be a good place to instruct. I actually went to ATP did you? My instructors constantly reminded me that they were not getting paid for ground. They only receive pay for dual given in the air, proctoring written exams, and bonuses for their students passing checkrides on first try. I am simply informing the OP of this thread that they would be better off going somewhere that actually pays them industry wages for their time. There are plenty of flight schools out there to choose from. Your sources are not first hand and you are misinformed. If anyone really wants to know he facts, give ATP a call and find out first hand for yourself. If the people you know are happy with instructing there then good for them, just know it's a fact they are not paid for teaching ground.

How long ago? It is my understanding that this has recently changed.

Anyone have any info or experience with the Raleigh Durham ATP flight school?
I'm looking at going there to finish my training and be a CFI.
Thanks!

ATP instructors actually do get paid for ground, they get a weekly ground guarantee, also flight time is tiered...the more your fly, the more you are paid.. Most instructors are getting paid very nicely. ATP is constantly working on improving.

what do you think guys about ATP Phx,AZ location ? I heard it's busy and they have alot of students I'm thinking to start from zero time.

I work at a flight school out of DVT in North Phoenix. I will tell you one thing, most of the CFI's that I work with that went to ATP regret getting so much into debt because they went to ATP and not just that but they actually hated that place. This coming from about 5 different guys that went to ATP, they all agreed on one thing, ATP's marketing is really good (0 to hero in two years or whatever) that's how they get you.

Do it at your own pace, paying as you go if you can at a different flight school.

They offer 90k for easa licence and they say it takes 12-15 months,i dont know its true or not+ i will give 15k for type rating so its around 105k..the thing is that i need easa licence and i wanna do it in us.I ve been searcing a lot of academies who can offer faa+easa and atp looks like they ve highest quality in those academies but im not sure..Some students had some troubles but some of them keep saying its the best option u have.

Instead of atp,i can go to cae oxford as well or any other academies but i need to search before i came to america and start to get my training asap.Money is not so important if this academy gives u good training and their students preferable from airlines.If you have any suggestion please let me know this.

I was contemplating ATP last year (assaulted with the emails and phone calls). Chose to piece meal it together at part-61 FBO's. It's more hours but I should be able to finish Com SEL and CFI for significantly less than 30k and minimal debt.

If you have the patience and drive to do it on your own it can save you a ton of money.

It sounds like to me that you get what you put into it with ATP like most things in life. I see a lot of complaints on Yelp as well as across these boards and maybe the location also is a factor. Does anyone have any information on the one in Long Beach, CA? Good? Bad?

ATP is a very bad choice..
 

It's just a pilot mill and an opportunity to be in big debt. It's not worth the money they charge.

They don't have a manager there as far as I know which means it is probably a better location since it isn't being micromanaged.

Also, it is just beneath the Class B airspace of LA so sometimes traffic there is insane. Actually for a low time pilot it is quite scary, intersecting runways, lots of jet traffic, lots of helicopters. But if you can fly in and out of there then you will be comfortable flying in other busy areas and your radio skills will be excellent.

ATP isn't really that much more expensive than anywhere else. :rolleyes:

And when you consider the opportunity cost of getting all of your ratings in less than a year, it actually makes a lot of sense, despite their poor management.

ATP
 

They are very spotty from facility to facility. I’ve seen good pilots come from there, but I know more who wuit part way through.
Gumby

Ah yes, "Standard Issue ATP Flight School Complaint #3."


ATP is neither evil nor the gold standard in flight training options.

It's great for those who want to get it all done in one swell foop. It's torture for those who need (or desire) a more individualized approach to their training. Also, if you don't already have your PPL, I recommend getting it at a FBO, Flying Club, etc rather than with ATP. This way, you'll learn your preferred learning style.

Yes, location matters, and not just due to differences in geography, weather patterns, traffic density, etc. If you can visit multiple locations, do so. Evaluate them against what you find at other flight training organizations in your area(s) of choice. Flight training is a highly individual experience and what works for you may not work for everyone. "Pay as you go" didn't work for me all too well as it took quite a while (calendar and flight time wise) to obtain my PPL.

For me, I did the math and found that no matter where I went to continue my training, I'd be looking at spending (borrowing) roughly the same amount of money. For reference, I was going to do the 40hr ME option PPL credit. As they say, your mileage may vary.

I went to ATP at LGB, and I had a good experience. I had my private when I started there a year and a half ago (which I believe they now require), and the instructor I was paired with was one of the more senior guys there, he was very good.

As the previous poster mentioned, LGB was a little daunting at first because I got my private at a rural uncontrolled field. There's definitely a lot going on and it's not uncommon to experience some level of delay trying to get in the air.

As I stated it's been over a year since I finished with ATP, so I can't say if the conditions are still the same. I keep in touch with some people who are working for them and they have told me that things are changing and a couple have even quit and gone elsewhere. I think it has had to do with management changes and the company having too many instructors for the number of students.

I didn't end up working for them for other reasons, but I am now instructing at LGB anyway at a different flight school.

I would stay away from that place. The instructors are underpaid. They aren't given the proper resources to do their jobs. They often only have time to get you "checkride ready" as the standard instead of teaching techniques that will benefit you down the road in your aviation career. There are plenty of programs around the country that will teach you how to be a pilot, not just pass a checkride.

If you go to allATP (or any 141), does it give you a break on the 1500 hour atp requirement or is that only through colleges?

ATP doesn't require the PPL before starting, but they do have a track for those with the PPL and at least 80hrs total time.


While I can't say if they truly are/are not underpaid, they do have less control over their schedules than their counterparts at an FBO or Flying Club. The flip side of that is having your students assigned to you rather than waiting until they find you could be advantageous.

One of the CFIs that I flew with at the Club I joined was a former ATP student and Instructor. The only negative thing he had to say about his time there was that they sent him, as a CFI, to Portland and he didn't fly very much due to weather. He left as he got tired of waiting to transfer to Denver.


Going to ATP doesn't make you eligible for the "restricted" ATP. In short, it's only available to Military Aviators and graduates of approved collegate degree/training programs.

The 1500 Hour Rule - Restricted ATP Requirements for First Officers | Boldmethod

I can tell you they are woefully underpaid. I worked at a different flight school and made twice-three times more than my friends answering phones in JAX waiting for their standards ride.

So you got paid 2-3 times as much as someone answering a phone??

Restricted ATP gets 1250 for Associates or 1000 for Bachelors but it must be an aviation degree granting institution (i.e. Embry Riddel...etc) that are approved by the FAA.

Base pay is base pay. And instead of putting their instructors through training, they had them man the phones. Instead, I went to a real flight school and made 2-3x the pay even after they started flying. By the time I left my flight school a year and a half after I started, I was on Pace to make $55k. Some of my friends at the schools that weren't busy couldn't touch that, not even close. Even the busiest schools couldn't come close to that.

I am looking at getting my ATP through AllATP. Has anyone done this? How was the experience? Does the ATP-CTP course include a check ride? Sorry I have been out of the game awhile.