jcountry

I did both. I got my instructor ratings at 141 and all prior to that part 61.

Big difference is structure. The 141 school I attended was so much more like an airline. Stuff was organized, structured, and efficient.

I very much preferred the way the 141 school did stuff. We would have briefings before and after each flight and/or sim session-that was great! It is not possible to learn while you have some knothead blabbering in your ear and you are trying to do stuff..... Much easier to learn on the ground-and ask questions. Talk about what you are going to do-go do it, and talk about how you did.

Another point. 141 schools (with self-examining authority) don't give checkrides. They give stage checks. You can't fail a stage check, you can incomplete one-and just come back and finish it later. My info is a bit dated, but I don't think incomplete stage checks show up in any records.

If you are looking at college programs, I like FIT and UND. Good folks. I leave out another noteworthy school for good reason.)

(She definitely will need a degree. I don't care what anyone thinks-people who don't get degrees have one hell of a lot harder time getting to a decent airline. Why make life so hard? Degrees are total cake these days-plus, she can develop skills that can be a real help when this industry takes another massive dump.)

JamesNoBrakes

The quality of instruction is the most important factor. It doesn't depend on 141 or 61. If you go fly with a 61 guy and there's no significant pre/post brief that helps you learn and improve, run away. Quality is not guaranteed by a certain type of school, but there are a few more checks and balances with 141 to ensure its not too bad. Conversely, some part 61 instructors are really good. Some are actually Designsted FAA examiners.

joepilot

The hourly cost of the Part 61 training will likely be less, but the total cost may be higher because more hours may be needed to achieve the same level of proficiency.

Joe

Bucknut

I have done both and each has its advantages. The one thing that stands out is which one to use for CFI training. One weakness with 141 schools is they tend to hire their own instructors which can lead to a lack of knowledge of pt 61. If a student does all 141 training and instructs at that school, it is not a problem.The other advantage of part 61 is that it tends to pull instructors from different backgrounds that offer different insights on how to do things. I liked the pt. 61 training from the aspect that I could schedule my flight training around classes and not have to worry about a specific time frame of when I had to finish. This takes some discipline but it was easier for me. I worked and went school and did my flight training all at the same time.

271c

I haven't seen anyone mention this yet in my skim of the posts (my apologies if it has been discussed already), but there is a very important consideration of a 141 college program, in addition to those discussed already: if she is going to get an aviation degree anyway, determine whether it's from a school that qualifies for the 1,000 hour ATP exemption. That reduction of 500 hours for a potential airline pilot can reduce the time needed to make it to that next career step. I know some who had 1,000 around graduation time after instructing part time for their junior and senior years. I know others who needed the full 1,500 and instructed another 500 hours; not necessarily a bad thing, but something to consider.

Disclosure: I am a 1,500 hour guy myself, and valued every last hour of that experience. That said, I'm confident I could have gone to the airlines at 1,000 hours and been equally successful. Opinions on this vary greatly.

JamesNoBrakes

I would say no, this is mainly a way to get you into a lot more debt, by going for the much more expensive 141 program. Better to be earning money and paying down debt, even if it requires you to get to 1500 before getting an ATP. People fail to realize the costs associated with borrowing money or spending significant time not earning money. The experience will do the person well.

271c

People fail to realize that 1,000 hours may allow someone to start an airline career sooner, which could mean larger incomes over time, more seniority, etc. And doing a college flight program does not mean more debt necessarily. I'm not sure why you say a 141 program is "much more expensive." If someone is getting a bachelors degree anyway, there's no reason not to do the flight training there too. I did both ends of the spectrum, and I taught in both. I saw plenty part 61 people spend tons of money getting bumped around with inconsistent training (not all, but some) and over-paying for old airplanes with sometimes-questionable/unaccountable instruction. A college provides structure and a relatively fixed budget. Often the airplanes are newer and safer -- this matters to a lot of people. There is generally a consistent training curriculum with standards and flows, things that help at the airlines.

As far as earning money, most colleges hire their own students to instruct -- im not sure how a non-college program would "earn money and pay down debt" any differently. Either allows a person to earn as a CFI, as a line worker, as a front desk attendant, whatever pays the bills.

There's no extra nobility in going to a "mom and pop" school and putting around an extra 500 hours in a 172. I did it, I get it. My classmates at an airline had 1,000 hours, and did just as well as I did, but started earning seniority 9-12 months sooner.

Now, if a person is NOT getting an aviation degree, which is a smart option too, then a lot of the above discussion changes a bit.

JamesNoBrakes

Anyone who is trying to get you to do things "fast" and get there "in a hurry" is just trying to get you into the pyramid scheme or take your money.

Don't listen to flight schools and others who say you have to get your certificates in a month or have to take out a huge loan to get qualified. 500-1000 hours is a pretty insignificant amount in your lifetime, as compared to a huge loan required to go to a 141/university school. There can be good reasons to go down th 141 or university path, so don't take this the wrong way, but anyone who is telling you that you have to "get in now" or that your "seniority depends on it!" needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

This isn't some huge advantage. While you are in school, you are most likely not paying down your debt, if you have a job you usually use that just to survive, buy food, etc. Then there's a period where you don't have to pay down your debt, but just pay the interest, which is stupid, but most young people don't realize the repercussions of their actions.

You are right, these aren't inherent 141 qualities, more they are qualities of universities associated with flight schools, but they tend to be pretty expensive as far as tuition and costs go.

Like I said, people get old, retire, and die. You can't live your life IMO worrying about 9-12 months of seniority in this business. There will always be someone ahead and behind you. It guarantees nothing.

CFI Guy

One big piece of advise I can give is do not go into debt for this career. Do not cosign on loans for her to pay for training. I'm amazed by all the people who hand over a large sum of money to start a professional pilot program only to drop out or decide they want to do something different with their lives.

My wife is an example. Thankfully she already had two undergrad degrees (no debt) before she started flight training. She took out a loan to pay for training. She completed all her ratings but after instructing for a couple months she decided to quit flying all together. She kicks herself now because she should have spent the money on grad school but that's no longer an option with her student loan debt.

I attended a big name school and I would estimate less than half of my fellow classmates are actually still flying professionally today. Some never got jobs and others just quit flying over the last few years. There were only a few women in my class (including my wife) and none of them flew more than a few years. The other couple I knew got married, got pregnant and that was that...

I would suggest she obtain a non aviation degree as a backup. Have her obtain her private pilot rating first, then maybe her instrument rating and see if she has a knack for it first. Flying is an aptitude and not everyone is cut out for it- at least not on a professional level.

Find a good instructor and do it for as cheap as possible. You can earn your ratings in a glass cockpit Cirrus or an old beat up 152. Your license looks the same but one will leave your wallet empty.