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Old 12-12-2016, 05:06 PM   #1
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Default Will skipping the CFIs hurt my future?

I've read a handful of threads on the no CFI topic but I'm not sure my scenario applies to them.

I'm currently a PPL certificate holder with 59TT. I have two options for airline pilot training - ATP and an FBO. ATP is the front runner for financial purposes mainly, and multi time. I met with an FBO today who has an interesting setup. Basically, his program would put me through the basics for airline pilot training except he leaves out all CFIs. His program would run me (my personal scenario) $30k rather than $60k at ATP. I would end up with less multi and no CFIs but the same TT - 200 or more. I know there are regionals that will hire without CFIs and I can build hours at scenic here in Vegas.

My concern is how my resume will look without the CFIs. Now, I could go back after starting at scenic or a regional and get those certs later while I'm building time for majors. The main reason for considering this is that I prefer the instruction from an FBO over ATP and I could only afford an FBO if the cost is closer to 30k.

I appreciate your time in responding. I'm super excited about earning my certs and I want to get out and earn time as quickly as possible. I just don't want to ruin my chances with the majors later on by cutting that corner. Thanks!

~ Dan
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Old 12-12-2016, 07:12 PM   #2
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I know guys who didn't do the CFI thing and guys who did. There are food and bad pilots from both groups. The good pilots bring something from each of their backgrounds.

The biggest disadvantage to not doing your CFI is that when you finish your commercial certificate with 250 hours, your job options will be very limited. The CFI option opens lots of jobs and you learn something by being a CFI. You will also learn lots of things in non-CFI jobs but you get my point.
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Old 12-12-2016, 07:20 PM   #3
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The FBO option dumps you on the street with a wet commercial. What are you going to do with it?
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Old 12-12-2016, 08:56 PM   #4
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Honestly, probably not from an interview/resume perspective, because at the point of Skywest and higher etc., they want PIC/turbine/multi/TT (they may ask you why you decided to not get them)
but the CFI's will give you a level of understanding and comfort with flying that is hard to get through simply flying around.
Like you said, you could go to Scenic and build time and get them while you're there and do some instruction on the side.
That's actually a good idea, shows motivation and social interaction. Just make sure Scenic will consider you with low time/no CFI
I started at Skywest from being an independent CFI and got on with relatively low time through ramping for them.
But I needed the CFI more for the time than the resume, many guys I flew with got their time from Scenic.
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Old 12-12-2016, 09:10 PM   #5
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If you are only considering getting the CFI as a resume builder, or instructing "just to build time", skip it. The pilots that enter the CFI world with the thought that it's just to build time do a disservice to their students and the aviation world as a whole.

Regionals don't hire pilots with 200TT as you claim...they can't due to the regs. Maybe a place like Scenic can do it, but not the "regionals". They require an ATP.

If somebody will hire you with 200TT, you better latch onto that because it's rare.
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Old 12-12-2016, 09:15 PM   #6
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A lot of people get the CFI to build hours, that's great as long as you provide good instruction. Some people don't need that because they have a plane or access to a plane/hrs/a job where they can do the same. Some people say they don't want to be a CFI because they don't want the responsibility, don't want to have to teach someone, etc. I'd be wary of these people, as airlines look for future captains that have these traits and qualities. By no means that does that require a CFI, but these are poor reasons to avoid it.
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Old 12-12-2016, 09:35 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
A lot of people get the CFI to build hours, that's great as long as you provide good instruction.
Agreed. Being willing and able to provide good instruction is the key.

Quote:
Some people don't need that because they have a plane or access to a plane/hrs/a job where they can do the same.
Sure....that works too.

Quote:
Some people say they don't want to be a CFI because they don't want the responsibility, don't want to have to teach someone, etc. I'd be wary of these people, as airlines look for future captains that have these traits and qualities. By no means that does that require a CFI, but these are poor reasons to avoid it.
Again, agreed. Especially these days, the 2nd primary duty of a Captain is to teach the FOs how to be a good Captain when their time comes. It's a mentoring position. Of course, their first duty is to get the passengers, crew, and aircraft safely from point A to point B.

Unfortunately, in the recent past(3-5 years or so, in my experience), many up and coming pilots have the attitude of "I have 1500 hours, I'm ready to be a Captain at Legacy carrier XYZ". Now, maybe I'm curmudgeon in my old(40 something) age, but I think that a lot of the kids coming up in aviation today have a severely overinflated ego. In that same time, being a Captain has gone from a mentoring position to an "entitled" position, all other things be damned.

Aviation is going to be in a world of hurt in 20 years, IMO.
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Old 12-13-2016, 05:09 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HPIC View Post
Now, maybe I'm curmudgeon in my old(40 something) age, but I think that a lot of the kids coming up in aviation today have a severely overinflated ego. In that same time, being a Captain has gone from a mentoring position to an "entitled" position, all other things be damned.
When one spends $100k or more worth of debt to get in that seat, it does tend to create a sense of entitlement.
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Old 12-13-2016, 09:10 PM   #9
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Quote:
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When one spends $100k or more worth of debt to get in that seat, it does tend to create a sense of entitlement.
If one is spending a hundred thousand to achieve pilot certification, then one is an idiot.

There is no justification for entitlement, having spent what's necessary to achieve certification. Upon completion of flight training with the basic certification, one is technically qualified insofar as certification, but without experience, flight time, or ability beyond the bare minimum. One is less than a dime a dozen, and scarcely marketable for much of anything, and one doesn't merit much pay or attention.

One is entitled to nothing. A sense of entitlement for a new pilot is akin to a teenager thinking the world should revolve around him or her. Merely because they want it does not make it so.
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Old 12-14-2016, 06:27 AM   #10
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I hope you didn't have to spend $100k to get to the airlines . Our two year collegiate program for 0-CFII, tuition, books, checkrides, housing costs with a single room, etc, would still be under $100k.

I guess if you go to Embry Riddle or something similar you will spend $100,000+ when you include tuition and board, but to a certain extent the degree should be considered a separate investment from the pilot training.
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