Rebin

Hi Guys
Here is my situation. I am 28, I have an associates degree and I will be starting school to get my bachelors this fall in Austin TX. I want to become an airline pilot. I have the funds to buy a Cessna 172 or similar if it is around 70-80K, so my first question is will I be able to find a good plane to finish my ratings for that price range? If I can, will buying my own plane be a better deal for me than paying schools like ATP 70K?
If the flight school route is better, should I go to ATP, get all my ratings and then instruct when ever I can while working on my bachelors.
I have been saving my money for the past 10 years so I am very lucky to be able to pay for my school or get my own airplane in cash and still be able to pay for college, so I would really like some advice here to how to tackle this issue so that I can get the best deal.

JohnBurke

Rebin,

Not enough information is provided; if you're doing an aviation degree through the school and flight training is incorporated, the cost is going to be considerably higher to learn to fly and they'll tell you where and what to fly.

Alternately, there are a lot of places considerably less expensive to learn to fly and ways of going about it, than a college program.

Owning an airplane is going to be more expensive than you think. The cost of ownership is a start, but the hourly cost is more than just adding fuel, and it's not like owning a car. Your first annual inspection is likely to be expensive, regardless of the pre-buy inspection that you get done. All kinds of costs will crop up that need attended whether it's changing a cylinder on an engine, corrosion on an engine mount, Cessna inspection SID's that can run more than the cost of the airplane, a fuel leak that requires pulling the tank, etc. It gets expensive. Add insurance, hangaring, and other factors, and your hourly cost won't be a lot less initially than rental.

Most instructors worth their weight in salt will require that you carry an insurance policy which will cover their time with you in the airplane. (they need to be insured for the instruction provided). This will increase your policy. When you sit down and figure your basic hourly costs, don't forget to include the cost of ongoing maintenance in the amount that you put into the kitty, among which is going to be the cost of an engine overhaul or replacement. Take all your basic operating costs, double them, and that's what you need to plan on for the hourly operating amount. Compare that to rental.

Owning can pay off in the longer run if you're going to be hammering out a lot of flying and plan to sell it before approaching any significant maintenance intervals, and if nothing intervenes (damage, breakdowns, etc) before you can sell it off. Otherwise, the hourly cost spread over the few hours you will fly will be high enough that you may not save a lot over rentals.

I've known individuals who bought an experimental (homebuilt) airplane and sold it for about what they paid. In the interim, it was just the operational cost they paid out, and they did save. You won't see that kind of margin when using a type certificated airplane such as a Cessna 172, but you may have difficulty finding instructors who will work with you in an experimental aircraft, too.

Don't build hours. Build experience. If you fly an hour, make it count. Always have a plan, even on your solo flights. Rather than droning around "building hours," fly a plan, decided in advance, that includes landings, steep turns, stalls, turns around or on a point, slow flight crosswind work, ground reference, cross country, and any number of other things that you can be working on. Make every hour count so that when you're ready to move forward, you have experience and not just hours logged.

rickair7777

I've known people who pulled it off and some who didn't. One dude bought a twin (back when you needed 300+ ME hours to get a job flying a 19-seat turboprop) and ended up buying two new engines...he would have been better off scrapping the plane but he still needed more hours.

If you get in, get your time, and get out in less than a year you can save some money even after routine maintenance and taxes and fees associated with the sale. You might be able to get even further ahead if you use the plane to teach in, although that limits your students (some will want to use their own plane, or a specific model) and obviously exposes you to more opportunity for expensive Mx issues.

Bottom line, it's a gamble. A school can get away with it because the "surprise" costs are spread out over a fleet of aircraft. With only one plane, you'll either make out like a bandit or lose you ass, not much middle ground.

You can mitigate the risk by getting a good pre-purchase inspection, and operating the engine carefully.

FlewNavy

The only advantage to owning a plane is that you get to fly when/where you want on your schedule. It is not cheaper than renting and it is stressful and awesome at the same time. You own a plane because you want to own a plane as a lifestyle. There is an expression out there...if it flies, floats or *******s ....its cheaper to rent.

Rebin

How about attending a school like ATP before starting my 4 year college, I was attending a community college and will transferring to a 4 year college to get a degree, not in aviation. As I have mentioned I can pay for ATP's program in cash, so I will not be in debt at all. I want to instruct when ever I have a chance while attending college to gain enough experience and build enough time to get hired by regionals or hopefully qualified enough to be hired by the majors after I get my bachelors. My only concern is time, I am 28 and do not want to wait too long until getting to the major airlines.

Rebin

I am also thinking about joining the guards or reserves while attending college. Does anybody know if you can become a pilot with them, doesn't matter which branch, if they have programs for pilots do they accept someone like me thats 28? Is there anything that I can do in the guards or reserves that might help me with my flying career in the future as an airline pilot?

JohnBurke

You've got a long road to get to the majors. If you get to the majors. It's not a matter of when. You need to understand that before you begin.

You're not going to go from flight instructing to a major airline. You'll need years of working as a professional pilot doing corporate, regional airlines, freight, etc, to get there. Your flight instructing experience will give you a start, but there aren't really any shortcuts.

Why go to ATP and spend that amount of money when it can be done for less elsewhere? The hardest part of learning to fly is paying for it. You indicated that you have the cash to spend and it sounds like that money is burning a hole in your pocket, but unless you're independently wealthy, recognize that your years of starvation begin after you're certified and you're working jobs that don't pay enough to feed a chimpanzee. Plan accordingly.

rickair7777

30 is about the age limit, although that can vary by a couple years either way. Without a degree, you could only enlist which might give you an inside track to a flight slot with that unit.

But at your age you'd probably be too old by the time you finished college + the one year application process. Might look into army reserve/guard helos, they might take you up to age 35 if you're already enlisted.

Rebin

I have another question not related to the original ones if you guys could help me out. There are many flight schools that I have found in the Philippines that are waaaaaay cheaper than schools in the US. How hard would it be for me to find an instructing job in the states for example or Europe after getting my ratings in the Philippines.
is the 1500 hours minimum to become a F/O same every where?

JohnBurke

Your best chances of being hired as an instructor are to train at a place that will hire you. Remember that nearly every professional pilot (and his or her dog) is a flight instructor, or has been one. Not even a dime a dozen, instructors can be had by the bushel basket, plus a free grab bag. Many schools won't allow independent instruction (most rental places won't, either), meaning you usually can't simply rent an airplane or bring students to a school on your own, unless you're employed by them.

There are some schools out there that hire a lot of instructors and fly a lot of hours; Transpac or Westwind, where hundreds of Chinese students funnel through. Such places don't require you to have trained there, but remember that there are a LOT of instructors, and such places only need a smattering of them.

If you train off shore, you'll still need FAA certificates, and you'll still need to be up to the standard that anyone who's been flying in the US can be expected to do. You'll face an uphill battle trying to find a place to hire you, but it could be done.

Few US students go abroad to learn to fly. A big chunk of the world comes to the US, however.