Csy Mon

Norwegian Air and their applicants are not doing anything illegal or immoral. It is all part of the Open Skies deal.
We have a short memory: Who invented the B scale? Hint: AA and UA.
Who flew jets for peanuts the last 25 years: Hint: US Regionals, food stamps inluded for junior pilots.
Pay to Play? Numerous US outfits, including Value Jet, Fine Air, etc.
Where was the outrage then?
Nowadays we finally have a looming pilot shortage, the Norwegian Pilot Compensation Problem will fix it self: To get warm bodies they will have to pay more than the Chinese and the Arabs, otherwise empty cockpits.

Denti

There is no pilot shortage on the horizon, at least not in europe, where you need to have your license to work for NAI or any other of the Norwegian Group outfits. Not even remotely. Within the EU the average pilot unemployment is around 16%, in some countries up to 25%. And we do get thousands of new pilots every year. And yes, all of them can fly any plane right from the start, after they paid for their type rating (or not, some airlines still pay it, i work for one of those).

Primera might be bad, but Wizzair is probably worse, and ryanair is bad as well. With the new generation of narrowbody aircraft pretty much every airline in europe can take on the north atlantic market with a cost base that is much lower than any legacy carrier, including NAI, which might be surprising, but is still true.

There are quite a few pilots within the Norwegian Group who are unionized, trying to unionize the rest of them. But so far there has not been much interest for that from the NAI pilots. Apparently the ability to live close to home, go to work three or four times a month for a 3 to 4 day trip is quite appealing. It even brings pilots back from much higher paid positions in asia and the middle east. And on the other end of the spectrum there are those that try to improve their CV by adding some valuable widebody time on longhaul routes that is appealing to other employers. And the US market doesn't really matter all that much to most of them, it is closed off, unlike the middle east or china.

They essentially "work their way up". The european way, which does not start working as a flight instructor, then flying King Airs before going to the regionals. In Europe it starts in the flight deck of an A320 or a 737 and goes up from there.

Do i support NAI? Not in the least. However, i do not see it as a US problem, i see it as an european problem. They follow the rules, like any other airline. It is up to us to change those rules if we really want it. And that is very hard and slow work. As mentioned above, the north atlantic market, at least the east coast traffic, will switch largely to ULCC narrowbody aircraft if the open sky agreement isn't changed. Expect to slow down for the A321NEO LR in front at .75 with your widebodies...

NEDude

I think there is a bit of a shortage when it comes to the LCCs and charter market. Like the U.S. side, the legacies will never have much issue getting pilots. But I also view the LCCs and charters as being in a similar boat as the regional airlines in the States. When I came to Europe after being in China for many years, I had zero issues with landing a direct entry captain job with several LCCs and charter airlines. The legacy airline near home was not a viable option for two reasons, first my proficiency in the language was not where it should be, and at my age I would be lucky to upgrade before retirement age as they have 20-25 year first officers (and getting hired in your mid 40s is virtually unheard of - many of their pilots retire by 55). Plus the FO pay was less than half of what I could get going to a LCC. I did make it through most of the process with "The World's Favourite Airline" before Brexit took 15% of my potential pay, and they stopped all recruitment activity for six months. But again, it would have required 10-15 years at pretty low pay in the right seat. Ultimately though I had six offers I had to sort through.

I do not think most of the guys here have a decent idea about what pilots get paid in Europe. BA wide body captains top out at around $150,000 per year, about half of what they make in the States. SAS starts their FOs at about $54,000, and there are only occasional COLA raises, no big jumps each year like with the U.S. contracts. Wide body pay at SAS tops out around $135,000. Of course most countries require companies make large contributions to the national pension plans. I believe France requires companies contribute 20% of the salary annually. Anyway, the point is that the European market is quite different than the U.S. market and many of the comments on here are based in ignorance.

The other point you made, which is overlooked by most, is that Norwegian IS playing by the rules. They are playing by the EU/EEA rules and they are playing by the Open Skies rules (the EU and the US authorities both agree on this fact). The issue is that on the US side, they have decided they do not like the rules and now wish to change them.

Denti

I seriously doubt the BA captain pay, according to PPJN the base pay for a widebody captain is 164.374 GBP plus another 10 GBP per block hour and 3,31 GBP per dury hour. Those figures are pretty much on par with the material BA gave us a year or so ago during a recruitment drive at my company. I know the pound lost quite a bit of value post brexit, but it is not that bad, all in all it will be quite a bit above $200k, even more for trainers of course. Not to mention, they have a very fast progression at the moment, as far as i know there was even an upgrade to captain for someone with less than 2 years with the company last year.

There might be a bit of a shortage for experienced pilots in places that are undesirable or those that offer bad T&Cs. Easyjet apparently is about to offer DEC positions, but of course in portugal where the conditions are extremely bad. If they had the same conditions as they have at better bases, like UK or german ones, they would have no shortage of FOs that are able to do their captain training. But those rather wait for a slot in the "good" bases.

Those with good conditions and bases in the right places do not have any shortage at all. And even those that offer bad conditions and bases in less desirable places do not have any shortage for first officers, they might however do have a problem to retain their captains, as chinese airlines in particular like to recruit from europe by now, same as the middle east ones.

NEDude

I got my BA numbers before I went through the process with them last year. Made it through two phases and after I got the notice to book for phase 3, I got a notice that they were not going to open more spots for six months. I was also told that upgrade at LGW had been theoretically possible in about two years, but the projections were that was no longer the case. But even based on your numbers, that works out to about $225,000 usd per year for a senior long haul line captain, which is about 20-25% less than the equivalent pay in States.

EasyJet offered me a direct entry Captain spot, LGW based. Base pay was £96,917. Added potential bonuses and sector pay brought the total to £114,022 annually, or about $145,000 before taxes. But LGW only has two night stops - CPH and MAD, so the overwhelming majority of trips are day trips. Also they wanted a 2 year bond of $12,700, to cover the cost of initial line training and hotac, even though I came in as a type rated and experienced A320 captain.

My current pay is less than easyjet, but my commute is positive space and considered a work day, and my accommodations in KEF are covered. There was also no training bond. Also the set schedule (I can plan out my entire year) and no sitting reserve, are nice perks.

Jaded N Cynical

https://www.usatoday.com/story/trave...ian/430457001/

Danfly180

I have received a screening invitation. Has anyone else done the interview process in MIA for the 787 First officer?

Thanks.

intrepidcv11

Sweet Widebody ride bro...

mainlineAF

No. You're the only one desperate enough. Congrats on sucking.

WHACKMASTER