Norwegian adds Denver and Seattle
05-19-2017, 11:09 PM
#21
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Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: A320 Left
Posts: 97
Originally Posted by NEDude
The so-called "flag of convenience" scheme, as ALPA likes to call it, is regularly used in Europe, and by airlines which have long held U.S. DOT approval. Thomas Cook, a U.K. company, owns subsidiaries, with their own separate AOCs, in Belgium, Germany and Denmark. Nobody in the U.S. is trying to picket them. Lufthansa owns subsidiaries, with their own AOCs, in Belgium (Brussels Airlines), Austria (Austrian) and Switzerland (Swiss and Edelweiss). Nobody is picketing them. Another Lufthansa subsidiary, Eurowings, is operating low cost operations across the Atlantic and paying its wide body pilots 25% less than Norwegian is paying. Where is the outrage over that? SAS used to operate as four separate AOCs, SAS Denmark, SAS Sweden, SAS Braathens (Norway) and SAS International. I do not recall seeing any "flag of convenience" accusations hurled at them before they combined in 2009.
Once i inquired with NAI for a job on their 787, i got a contract which had the contract state as Singapore and i would have been officially based in Bangkok, however, most of my downtime would have actually been in scandinavia or the UK, circumnavigating their labour laws. And in my view that is actually a big issue. But yes, Wizzair uses a similar program for their contractors, where they are based in some eastern european country, but their contract state is Switzerland.
However i do see that mainly as an EU problem, and one of the big problems with the EU at the moment that employers do get a lot of freedom, trade unions and employer representation however do not get anything like that. There is a huge imbalance of negotiating power and contract enforcement.
05-19-2017, 11:45 PM
#22
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Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: tri current
Posts: 1,485
Originally Posted by captjns
Think about it.... right in you own backyard... DAL, UAL, and AA are outsourcing your jobs. Although they call it codesharing. Why put a high dollar labor, with their own metal, on a routes to the Far East when they can outsource, er I mean codeshare the same seat for perhaps 75% of the cost and profit from it? Wait there's more... some of these outsourced/codeshare carriers have low wages with no benefits and may even require training bonds too
. Haven't seen any picketing in ATL, ORD, or DFW or headquarters for unfair labor practices.
. Haven't seen any picketing in ATL, ORD, or DFW or headquarters for unfair labor practices.Bingo!!, we have a winner
05-20-2017, 05:41 AM
#25
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Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: A320 Left
Posts: 97
Originally Posted by Das Auto
Out of interest, does anyone know the pay scale for European based 737 and 787 pilots?
737 is even more different, from LCCs to legacy airlines there are huge differences in T&Cs. Although most bigger legacies have switched from the 737 to A320s, with the noted excemption of KLM, SAS (not entirely sure) and Turkish if you call that european, i dont. There are very horrible T&Cs, and extremely good ones, for example KLM.
The pay structure is quite often very different from the way it is done in the US, many carriers do have a base pay that includes a certain number of hours and beyond that overtime pay which is to a different rate, however, pretty much every carrier has its own pay structure and they are usually not that easy to compare.
05-20-2017, 07:01 AM
#26
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Joined APC: Sep 2013
Posts: 684
Originally Posted by Denti
Depends a lot. I think 787 are being flown by Norwegian, British Airways and LOT, did i miss someone? Anyway, those three are very diverse companies with very different pay scales. As far as i know BA does not have an aircraft dependent pay scale, but there is a difference in pay in shorthaul or longhaul. No idea about LOT, apart from what you can see on PPJN. And i guess you know what Norwegian pays.
737 is even more different, from LCCs to legacy airlines there are huge differences in T&Cs. Although most bigger legacies have switched from the 737 to A320s, with the noted excemption of KLM, SAS (not entirely sure) and Turkish if you call that european, i dont. There are very horrible T&Cs, and extremely good ones, for example KLM.
The pay structure is quite often very different from the way it is done in the US, many carriers do have a base pay that includes a certain number of hours and beyond that overtime pay which is to a different rate, however, pretty much every carrier has its own pay structure and they are usually not that easy to compare.
737 is even more different, from LCCs to legacy airlines there are huge differences in T&Cs. Although most bigger legacies have switched from the 737 to A320s, with the noted excemption of KLM, SAS (not entirely sure) and Turkish if you call that european, i dont. There are very horrible T&Cs, and extremely good ones, for example KLM.
The pay structure is quite often very different from the way it is done in the US, many carriers do have a base pay that includes a certain number of hours and beyond that overtime pay which is to a different rate, however, pretty much every carrier has its own pay structure and they are usually not that easy to compare.
I guess health insurance won't be necessary at the U.K. bases with the national health service.
05-20-2017, 10:11 AM
#27
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Joined APC: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,067
Originally Posted by Denti
Depends a lot. I think 787 are being flown by Norwegian, British Airways and LOT, did i miss someone? Anyway, those three are very diverse companies with very different pay scales. As far as i know BA does not have an aircraft dependent pay scale, but there is a difference in pay in shorthaul or longhaul. No idea about LOT, apart from what you can see on PPJN. And i guess you know what Norwegian pays.
737 is even more different, from LCCs to legacy airlines there are huge differences in T&Cs. Although most bigger legacies have switched from the 737 to A320s, with the noted excemption of KLM, SAS (not entirely sure) and Turkish if you call that european, i dont. There are very horrible T&Cs, and extremely good ones, for example KLM.
The pay structure is quite often very different from the way it is done in the US, many carriers do have a base pay that includes a certain number of hours and beyond that overtime pay which is to a different rate, however, pretty much every carrier has its own pay structure and they are usually not that easy to compare.
737 is even more different, from LCCs to legacy airlines there are huge differences in T&Cs. Although most bigger legacies have switched from the 737 to A320s, with the noted excemption of KLM, SAS (not entirely sure) and Turkish if you call that european, i dont. There are very horrible T&Cs, and extremely good ones, for example KLM.
The pay structure is quite often very different from the way it is done in the US, many carriers do have a base pay that includes a certain number of hours and beyond that overtime pay which is to a different rate, however, pretty much every carrier has its own pay structure and they are usually not that easy to compare.
SAS has 737s based in ARN and OSL, and the A320 family based in Copenhagen.
KLM has its low cost, alter ego company, Transavia (which also maintains two AOCs - one in France and one in the Netherlands) which is an all 737 operator.
05-20-2017, 10:19 AM
#28
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Joined APC: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,067
Originally Posted by Das Auto
I was referring to Norwegian specifically. Just interested in how their 737 and 787 compensation in the U.K. compares to what they're offering here in the U.S.
I guess health insurance won't be necessary at the U.K. bases with the national health service.
I guess health insurance won't be necessary at the U.K. bases with the national health service.
LGW based, but residing outside the UK, or CDG, AMS, BCN bases-
TRI €12,600/month ($14,117 USD)
Line Captain €10,500 ($11,764 USD)
Relief Captain €8,400 ($9,411 USD)
FO €6,300 ($7,058 USD)
LGW based UK residents are still paid in GBP. Exchange rate is based on today.
Also note that after three years you are moved to the OSM contract which both pays more and has a lower over time threshold, so it is easier to get overtime pay each month. My neighbor who flies for Norwegian and has moved to the OSM contract is quite happy.
*Found the Rishworth Briefing for UK pilots based in LGW:
Captains 8,716GBP ($11,361USD)
Relief Captains 6,973GBP ($9,089USD)
First Officers 5,230GBP ($6,817USD)
Last edited by NEDude; 05-20-2017 at 10:32 AM. Reason: Added GBP pay
05-20-2017, 09:21 PM
#29
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Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: A320 Left
Posts: 97
Originally Posted by NEDude
KLM, Thompson, TUI Netherlands, Air Europa, Air Austral and Virgin Atlantic also operate the 787 in Europe.
SAS has 737s based in ARN and OSL, and the A320 family based in Copenhagen.
KLM has its low cost, alter ego company, Transavia (which also maintains two AOCs - one in France and one in the Netherlands) which is an all 737 operator.
SAS has 737s based in ARN and OSL, and the A320 family based in Copenhagen.
KLM has its low cost, alter ego company, Transavia (which also maintains two AOCs - one in France and one in the Netherlands) which is an all 737 operator.
Yes, thats why i thought i had seen SAS 737s, but it's been some time since i was in ARN and we do not serve OSL anymore, but i have been a lot in CPH, that probably skewed my impression.
06-05-2017, 05:17 PM
#30
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Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 692
Originally Posted by Das Auto
I wonder if they'll offer positions for U.S. pilots based out of Denver and Seattle like they're advertising for now out of Ft. Lauderdale.
$40,000 3 year training bond and for the 787.
$40,000 3 year training bond and for the 787.
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