Is Cathay Pacific culture really that bad?
07-19-2017, 09:06 PM
#81
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 767 Captain
Posts: 3,988
Originally Posted by Beaver Hunter
One reason American RT is as you say bad. It really is not. It's just not standard ICAO. The reason is primarily due to the massive amounts of radio communication taking place. My theory when asked about my RT. My answer is that communication took place between the two parties in the most efficient and effective ways. We both understand what each wants from the other. In the end, is that not the point?
I you're going to fly 100% of your career in the US, then whatever "not standard ICAO" trucker comm you want to use will probably work. I hear plenty of US pilots flying internationally who need some re-education badly. It's embarrassing.
To your final point, just because you think you're communicating in an "efficient and effective" non-ICAO way doesn't mean the guy on the other end is going to think the same thing, especially outside the US. You think there aren't airspace sectors throughout Europe and Asia that rival sectors in the US for "massive amounts of radio communication"?
There's no guarantee a radio call is ever going to accomplish exactly what you want, but the best chance one has of success is using standards accepted worldwide. Some guys can switch from US "bro comm" to ICAO standard depending on their location but most can't. Better to make every radio call as perfect and standard as possible than fall into bad habits at the most inopportune moment when it might matter more than you think.
07-23-2017, 07:48 PM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: L188
Posts: 979
Yeah, um
If memory serves, CX used to call level at ALL levels. I believe they were told SHUTENZEEUP!
Has anyone here ever flown to FRANCE? I mean Sacre Bleu, Merde!
Anyone can access the "ICAO-Radio Phraseology Handbook" online. I think it's free. I don't think any of the U.S. majors spend anytime on this topic. It is near and dear to me and I try politely correct my cockpit mates as I think it's important. It's not all that hard. Keep in mind, it doesn't only apply to ATC!
I think everyone should read the book. Every airline should spend a day on talking on the radio.
Has anyone here ever flown to FRANCE? I mean Sacre Bleu, Merde!
Anyone can access the "ICAO-Radio Phraseology Handbook" online. I think it's free. I don't think any of the U.S. majors spend anytime on this topic. It is near and dear to me and I try politely correct my cockpit mates as I think it's important. It's not all that hard. Keep in mind, it doesn't only apply to ATC!
I think everyone should read the book. Every airline should spend a day on talking on the radio.
07-26-2017, 05:47 PM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 294
Originally Posted by Adlerdriver
I'll readily admit I'm a radio nazi. After flying in Asia, especially China and a few other spots where English is barely a second language I completely disagree.
I you're going to fly 100% of your career in the US, then whatever "not standard ICAO" trucker comm you want to use will probably work. I hear plenty of US pilots flying internationally who need some re-education badly. It's embarrassing.
To your final point, just because you think you're communicating in an "efficient and effective" non-ICAO way doesn't mean the guy on the other end is going to think the same thing, especially outside the US. You think there aren't airspace sectors throughout Europe and Asia that rival sectors in the US for "massive amounts of radio communication"?
There's no guarantee a radio call is ever going to accomplish exactly what you want, but the best chance one has of success is using standards accepted worldwide. Some guys can switch from US "bro comm" to ICAO standard depending on their location but most can't. Better to make every radio call as perfect and standard as possible than fall into bad habits at the most inopportune moment when it might matter more than you think.
I you're going to fly 100% of your career in the US, then whatever "not standard ICAO" trucker comm you want to use will probably work. I hear plenty of US pilots flying internationally who need some re-education badly. It's embarrassing.
To your final point, just because you think you're communicating in an "efficient and effective" non-ICAO way doesn't mean the guy on the other end is going to think the same thing, especially outside the US. You think there aren't airspace sectors throughout Europe and Asia that rival sectors in the US for "massive amounts of radio communication"?
There's no guarantee a radio call is ever going to accomplish exactly what you want, but the best chance one has of success is using standards accepted worldwide. Some guys can switch from US "bro comm" to ICAO standard depending on their location but most can't. Better to make every radio call as perfect and standard as possible than fall into bad habits at the most inopportune moment when it might matter more than you think.
07-27-2017, 07:43 PM
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: L188
Posts: 979
Or
Force them (ATC and others) to use ICAO standard. I know it's difficult but it's incumbent on us to make the standard, standard! In India they won't answer you if they don't understand you. It has to be ICAO radio there. Yes, I know, it's not perfect. Nowhere is.
An example, "Confirm to descend to 10,000 confirm QNH". It then forces ATC to speak properly. I also think ground communications, cockpit to ground, is important as well.
Lastly, and MOST importantly, THERE IS NO SUCH CLEARANCE AS CLEARED TO GO! It's cleared for takeoff AND the runway number! Rwy 8 in Runway 08!
An example, "Confirm to descend to 10,000 confirm QNH". It then forces ATC to speak properly. I also think ground communications, cockpit to ground, is important as well.
Lastly, and MOST importantly, THERE IS NO SUCH CLEARANCE AS CLEARED TO GO! It's cleared for takeoff AND the runway number! Rwy 8 in Runway 08!
07-28-2017, 03:11 AM
#86
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 747 captain
Posts: 1,549
It would be nice if people take a look at their charts while enroute and familiarize themselves with the FIR boundaries....., A little hint.., those are the ETA's that ATC wants to know about. The read back over and over again of an FIR is getting ridiculous...., specially when some folks just read back something similar sounding pretending that they understood just to look for it on their legs page later.
While I'm asking for my impossible wish list...., how about taking a glance at the available FL's for that route segment..., FL so and so, "Not available" How about FL so and so? "Not available" and So and so? "Not available" Can you accept FL so and so? (The next standard enroute level for that segment) Ummmmm. No sorry, too heavy!
While I'm asking for my impossible wish list...., how about taking a glance at the available FL's for that route segment..., FL so and so, "Not available" How about FL so and so? "Not available" and So and so? "Not available" Can you accept FL so and so? (The next standard enroute level for that segment) Ummmmm. No sorry, too heavy!
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