Westjet
 

Anyone out there fly for Westjet or know someone who does? I'm interested in quality of life, and growth/hiring info...

I currently fly for a U.S. regional but have dual citizenship and am considering a move back North. I'm originally from Vancouver and would like to go back. I hear there is now a pilot base there.

Air Canada is also an option but Westjet seems to be a better bet for growth, profitability, and corporate culture.

Thanks for your help. :)

OK, looks like no WJ drivers on the site. There are a number of ex Flightcraft guys that I know there. I'll ask what the hiring is like at the moment. I can tell you that the pay is OK, but better the more you fly. The last guy to get hired that I know well was upgraded in just over 24 months. Everybody as far as the flight-deck are concerned appear to be pretty happy.

On the plus side the FAA and MOT have recently made the conversion pretty simple; that is if you are not yet ticketed in the Great White North.

Thanks for the info. Yeah I've heard most people are pretty happy there. Westjet seems a better bet than Alaska airlines if you want to live in the Northwest... I'm still trying to get in touch with a few guys I used to fly with years ago that went over there.

AirCanada is one of the few major airlines left that is like the old days, HIGH pay, good QOL

I will tell you now that AirCanada is a far far far far far far.....FAR better choice then westjet!
AirCanada is one of the best airlines in the world right now! And is expanding rapidly, their training department is swamped right now trying to keep up. Air Canada has 62 :eek: 787's ordered yes thats right 62 , 19 777 ordered, with another 30 Embraers comming! West jet has no significant orders right now. This expansion will only go up now with the new open skies deal between the US and Canada.
Also go take a look at the AC pay scales....... they are alot higher then any US carrier! Upgrade on the Embraer is only a couple years and the 320 is only a few more years longer.
only the first bunch of westjet pilots got a good deal(stock!) New westjet pilots only get paid a little more then Jazz pilots.

ANd come one... you want to spend the rest of your career flying to winnipeg and saskatoon.
Or do you wanna fly to Paris, Rome, London, Germany, Israel, Asia, Australia, South America, the Carribean! Those places are kinda nice to visit when AC puts you in a $300 a night hotel.

Go to Air Canada!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its one of the best aviation jobs in the world right now

OK. So no problems with the continuing angst among the Canadian/AC pilots. The unsettled lawsuit. The legal action filed by the pilots against the company recently. The current balance sheet. And what about those first two years pay? I know a number of pilots who do not like the situation they have at AC. Not one of my friends at WJ has a single bad thing to say.

I agree that the long haul international stuff is nice, but alot of your drivers are flying CRJ's into Thunder Bay for table scrap wages. I'm sure you're happy there, but best not to slag a company that has happy employees and shareholders.

I'm a canadian citizen, born and raised in Toronto but I haven't worked at YYZ for a few years now so forgive me if I'm out of touch. Shoot, except for the Private License, I don't even have a Transport Canada certificates yet. I'm all set to get a medical and write the FAACA and FAAIA exams for the converstions to be licensed in Canada. Been down south flying CRJ thanks to my american born spouse gettin' me the green card. But if I'm not mistaken, flying RJ's into Thunder Bay or London, ON or whatever is hardly Air Canada! You're talking about Air Canada "Jazz" aren't you? That's like comparing Comair to Delta. Both regional carriers are wholly owned subsidiaries, but completely separate companies. Except that Jazz does have some sort of flow thru if I'm not mistaken. And at least the Jazz guys don't have the competition like we do down here with all the regional pilots getting whip-sawed to death against one another, work rules are pathetic, and the trips being completely unproductive. With the current trend of international growth in aviation right now, I think Air Canada mainline is where it's at too. I'm sure WestJet is an awsome company. I have a buddy who is a dispatcher and has nothing but great things to say. But they are a domestic carrier, and the numbers are relatively flat in North America with only single digit 2% to 3% at best, compared to 7% to 10% growth internationally, over the next 5 to 6 years. Besides, it seems that whenever a company in Canada begins to get too big for their britches, they seem to have a funny way of disappearing in the great white north. Albeit great airlines, Ward Air or Canadian ring a bell? And at the end of the day there's only one left standing and that's the big red maple leaf baby!

You are mistaken my friend. AC mainline flies a number of CRJ's due to a scope clause. Please check the airlines spec sheet on this site. While your at it check out the first two years pay, and please don't lecture me about paying your dues when first hired; that's what you did to get to a mainline carrier in the first place.

AC is getting 777's and 787's, finally, because they desperatelty need to replace a seriously run down fleet. They have pulled international runs lately (to India for example), and the new planes will be doing things like YVR-SYD direct, which they currently do through HNL with B767's. I flew on one a while back and it had a Canadian Airlines interior. They pulled a number out of the dessert as I understand it as they seriously misjudged their requirements.

I don't mean to burst your AC bubble, but they haven't been a real flash airline for a long time now. They lost money last year with good load factors and cheap labour, something the North American mainline carriers are good at. Look at the way Milton sells off assets, reworks shares, screws with employees. I'd be very carefull about heading in to that company at the moment.

That all said I do agree that long haul flying is great, if you are working for a stable airline with good pay (not navajo pay for the first two years) and reasonable labour relations; I just don't think that AC is in that league just yet.

And as for the 'big red maple leaf baby', and the reference to Canadian. Canadian was going to buy AC, but Milton couldn't keep it in his pants and bid a stupid price so poor old him wouldn't be the one to get bought out. The end result of that was a merged, bankrupt airline with a nightmare of a pilot seniority issue. People committed suicide over it. People lost their homes. After that the Canadian gov't looked to none other than Westjet to save the day, which their employees thanked the gods they refused to do. So now a whole bundle of people hold worthless stock while Milton and his buddies at GECAS make out like bandits.

As for the N American market growth, in particular that of WJ. . . actually forget it, apparently you haven't been paying much attention while south of the border. You might want to check out the wages and QOL at Southwest, compare it to your mainline carriers, and take a wild guess at what the Canadian market will look like in 5-10 years.

My rant for the day.

I think you have some of your facts wrong.

The only reason Westjet is around is because of the socialist liberal government protecting them from AC. How the hell could a airline in bankruptcy protection be accused of predatory pricing?!? Yes thats right, AC is not allowed to have lower fares then westjet without taking flak from the government. Also Westjets whole expansion into the east was due to them hacking onto the AC pilot travel page and checking the loads on all AC flights.
"Canadian was going to buy AC" It was not canadian that was going to by AC. Canadian was on the verge of bankruptcy, ONEX was trying a hostile take over of both company's! AC pilots along with managment fought them off with threats of destroying the company. After the Liberal government FORCED aircanada to buy canadian airlines so those old timers would not be out of a job! And the thanks that the canadian pilots gave for having their jobs saved was to screw the AC pilots and cause trouble for the company. The senority issue is because AirCanada pilots lost everything..... 320 captains were demoted to 320 Fo's to baby sit a former canadian 737 fo's that upgraded into the AC pilots 320 spot. The government forced this list on AirCanada pilots, AC pilots are just fighting to get a fair deal. Hopefully now with the Conservative government this will happen. Regardless this in NO WAY what so ever effects new hires... they go behind all the AC and canadian pilots anyway.

Now you want to compare westjet and AC pay... well look at the pay scales:
http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airli...ir_canada.html
http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airli...n/westjet.html

I agree first two years at westjet are better pay.... but AC pay quickly passes this.

The most senior Westjet captain gets paid only slightly more then senior AC fo's....... Gotta love what AC pay scales end at, $227! The only well off westjet pilots were the first few with tons of stock... that doesnt say much tho, the first FA's and mechanics are also millionaires

You think aircanada has a run down fleet? :rolleyes: You do relize they have one of the best maintance programs in the world right? They do maintance for several US airlines... And they are a certified Airbus maintance program. Their planes are some of the newest, most advanced, best taken care of aircraft in the world..... The bad planes you are talking about are Canadians old ones(those ones make me sick to, canadian neglected maintanace on them for years) that AC spent millions on fixing up. The only reason they took planes out of the desert was because expansion was outpacing delivery of new aircraft(this was mostly 767-200's)
Now for expansion.... westjet is only getting 7 737's this year with no larger orders on the horizon.
AC is getting 7 777's this year along with 30 Embraers.... with long term plans of 17 777's and 62 787's(one of the largest in the world)!

AIr Canada does not fly into Thunderbay anymore, thats all JAzz now..... THunderbay is possibly the worst city in north america haha
However Westjet flies 3 737's into their each day

Oh ya The last CRJ flown at AC left in 2006! You made it seem like having the CRJ's at mainline was bad? AC hired like 400 pilots when they first got them in 1995, and most of them are now 320 captains or could hold 320 captain. Ussualy pilots only had to stay on the CRJ for a year or 2

One last thing... I dont know any WestJet pilots that can get away with working 8 days a month

I tend to disagree with a number of your points. The deal with ONEX for a start. Gerry Schwarz was looking to merge the two money losing companies into one profitable one. Milton was not forced to do anything. He over bid because of his ego. The losers were the shareholders and the employees. But hey, he and his buddies at GCAS are driving Ferraris, so it's OK.

I stand corrected, AC mainline no longer flies CRJ's, they now fly ERJ's. My mistake.

My company ordered (remember the options here in the totals here)over 40 777/787's. I'm not naive enough to think we'll ever see half of them. Most, like AC, will be for fleet replacement. I won't see the pretty numbers at the top of the pay scale for some time. Our friends at WJ will be on six figures and in the left seat years before we are. And they won't be stuck on a stby Xmas run to Osaka.

I think your last line is the most telling with how AC is run, and the realities of operating an airline in this day and age; likely a big reason AC will continue to lose money while WJ will continue to be profitable. It's also the reason I'd stay far away from AC. The airlines in the States that ran the same way ended with the worst pay in the industry. But hey, time and the next contract will tell.

Again, many of those orders are replacements. AC runs the ERJ against WJ 737's with inflight entertainment and enough belley space to actually carry all the pax baggage. 7 to 12 years for an upgrade to the A320, even my airline beats that. At WJ it's averaged two. Good point about the high end pay scale, but again, I don't believe that with the current managers it will be around for too long.

Don't get me wrong here, I understand your point, and if Milton wasn't evil and self serving, and they didn't have such a monstrous debt (yes, they still do, no matter how they fiddle with the numbers) I'd try very hard to believe that AC was going to be a place to be. I just don't. Look at the past for insight into the future and I think one get's a good idea of what is likely to happen, hence my reference to what SW now has as far as QOL and pay vs. the big airlines, not to mention benifits (I'll leave the AC benifits to you; retirement fund etc.).

Either way good luck with it. A good upside with AC is that you can take that nice new Bus or Boeing ticket and go somewhere hot if they do run into trouble again.

And I like Thunder Bay. I used to be based out of there. You should really give it a try. I hear Bearskin is hiring.

"Gerry Schwarz was looking to merge the two money losing companies into one profitable one"
For one Air Canada was in rapid expansion at the time and were profitable, upgrade on the 320 was at about 3 years! 767 not to far off from that. Another Schwarz was not looking to merge it into one profitable carrier.... he was looking to merge it then sell off it off in pieces at a profit! Thats what ONEX does, thats how take over firms make their money. The AC purchase of canadian did not happen until after the onex deal fell through.... AC didnt outbid them. The Air Canada pilots were threating strike and were threating to sink Air Canada if the deal went through. Managment fought along side them all through it, it should be noted milton was very admired by the employees at the time.... which is why everyone hates him now for stabbing them in the back after.

It was believed at the time Air Canada bought Canadian, that canadian only could operate for maybe another week at most. Then out of no where AirCanada purchases Canadian, due to EXTREAME pressure from that frog of a liberal.... because in this socialist country they couldnt stand the thought of several thousand people unemployed. Canadian government was threating to withhold international routes if they didnt.
It is also nice to point out that AC had one of the youngest if not the youngest fleet in the world at the time. And were one of the most respected airlines in the world. It had to THROW AWAY almost all of Canadians fleet(737's and DC10's) ANd had to spend millions to bring the few 320's and 767's up to AirCanadas standards.
Basicaly the only thing AC got from Canadian was a few South American and Asia routes!

"Our friends at WJ will be on six figures and in the left seat years before we are."
AC pilots can make that within 2 years(after formula pay is done)

"won't be stuck on a stby Xmas run to Osaka."
Youre right, they wont... they will be enjoying their motel 6 in Saskatoon while that poor AC pilot enjoys a steak dinner at his $300 a night hotel with his nice fat $500 expense check!

"AC will continue to lose money while WJ will continue to be profitable"
THey had been posting profits up until their slower 4th quarter

"many of those orders are replacements. AC runs the ERJ against WJ 737's with inflight entertainment "
Only a few are replacements. All the Embraers are expansion, 777 will slowly phase out the 340's over many years, and their is no indication of replacing the 767's with the 787's imediatly. And the 190's have the personal TV's too! All AC fleet will have them now.

"I don't believe that with the current managers it will be around for too long"
Is that why AC just made the 777 payscale almost $30 an hour more the the 340's, just to take it away a year later?

"Either way good luck with it. A good upside with AC is that you can take that nice new Bus or Boeing ticket and go somewhere hot if they do run into trouble again"

If Air Canada goes under, the Canadian economy tanks! The country goes into deep depression..... aint gonna happen, AirCanada will be around forever!

Well, you'll enjoy your time there then.

I disagree with most of what you say, but as long as you're happy with your choice then who cares what I think. That's pretty much the same with the WJ guys. I don't know a single one who isn't happy with their decision. I'm pretty sure that anybody going there will have the same opinion.

After my mates were laid off by AC in 2001 they weren't happy at all. Of course they went to EK so it's all good iin the end.

But like you said, AC is here to stay so no need to worry.

Agreed, lets just end the argument.... I think we scared the other people away from this thread haha.
I do agree, I have never heard a westjet pilot complain so it most be alright at westjet to. As I never hear AC pilots complain either

One thing that I will admit westjet has on AC is... there head quarters arnt in Montreal :D Never fly between Paris and Montreal on AC..... worst flight ever, the FA's would NOT speak english to me(i was in the back).
AC needs to pick up their act and get a pilot base in Calgary one day to.

Calgary. . .I thought they did. Bummer. But man, I love Montreal. We used to lay over there with Flightcraft. I've heard numerous complaints about the french FA's as well. As a matter of fact it was from one of their english FA's that I ran into in a cafe in SFO a couple weeks ago.

This thread has certainly hit the 'who gives a @%#$' wall.

All I was saying is that Air Canada has been around a long time, regardless of whatever financial difficulties they've had in the past. "Crown corporation" or privately, held they have always been Canada's national flag carrier and probably always will be. So in my opinion, that is the epitome of a "stable" airline. And yes, my guess is that they do pay somewhat better than what a Navajo driver gets on his best day after the first couple years on the line. Air Canada pay, long term, is by far much better than most US majors (granted the CDN dollar is relatively strong at the moment). Also keep in mind retirement or defined penion benefit is all but a long, lost, forgotten folk story for guys at the legacy carriers in the US. Unless I am sadly mistaken, Air Canada still has a defined pension benefit. True or False? Even with a weak dollar, whatever you make in CDN dollars will still buy you a Big Mac combo ( or Harvey's or Swiss Chalet <---insert favorite convenience restaurant chain here) in CDN dollars all day long either way. So who cares how it stacks up to the US greenback? The one thing that does kind of worry me is taxes, and how that impacts our pay. Down south we get breaks or tax credits for being on the road and meals while away from base etc. I don't know that Rev Can is that generous, so any info would be appreciated on that one (Gross vs. take home, etc). Plus will canadian carriers be ok with converted licenses based on FAA, with this new reciprocal agreement? Any info on that will also be appreciated.

The Southwest has a great model but they truly "lucked" out. I say that in quotes becuase the guy who made the decison to hedge fuel in the quantity that he did and at the price that he did obviously did his homework. But with that said, without those hedges, Southwest wouldn't have been nearly as profitable with everything that went down after the events of 9/11. As far as QOL at Southwest, who the hell wants to have to run 5 legs per day with 25 minutes turns, taxiing at 40 mph from the gate to improve their aircraft utilization by whatever % that they need to remain competitive? That's why I want to get out of "regional" flying. Now I don't really know that this is necessarily what they do at Southwest, but I do know that I want nice cushy trips, long overnights in exotic locations. Costs are rising quickly for the discount carriers like Southwest, Air Tran, and Jet Blue and legacy carriers like Delta, United, have brought theirs in line with the discount guys and have become much more competitive. I'm afraid the market can't survive on $100 fares much longer and either the price of a ticket is going to have to go way up, at least down here, or carriers are going to have to tap into markets that have better revenue such as Delta is doing with their international expansion. Check out Delta and Northwest, they've all but abandonded trying to compete domestically and only use their domestic routes to feed the international long haul stuff. And that's not even taking into consideration the havoc that will be played on smaller carriers when "Open Skies" goes into effect. My guess is only the largest airlines will survive that mess AND there will be major consolidation....finally!

Air Canada can more than handle WestJet on the domestic side, and the vacation haulers on the international charters from Transat and, SkyService. I jump seated on flights at my airline with a couple canadian guys that can't wait to move north, and have flown with or knew of a guy here or there that is on the E175 or E190 in YYZ that have dual citizenship or whatever and are back in Canada. I wasn't really trying to argue with airline was better, but more to the point that I can't wait to get back to the great white north, and that Air Canada was in my sights first and foremost and why. But I wouldn't turn down an offer from WestJet either if it was offered to me. I'm a Toronto guy so maybe that's the difference. Maybe it would be different if I was a Calgary guy? My two cents:o