Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Airline Pilot Forums > Foreign
Norwegian financial performance >

Norwegian financial performance

Notices
Foreign Airlines that hire U.S. pilots

Norwegian financial performance

Old 04-07-2018, 08:22 AM
  #51  
Gets Weekends Off
 
NEDude's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,067
Default

Originally Posted by Andy View Post
All of that doesn't matter when the entire corporation crumbles under its massive debt load. Is that where you're flying now? Good luck...
No, but thank you for the good wishes anyway.
NEDude is offline  
Old 04-07-2018, 01:42 PM
  #52  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 171
Default

Originally Posted by NEDude View Post
Yes, because airlines owning multiple AOCs is so unusual...

Seriously, how much did it cost for your selective viewpoint surgery?
So you do agree that NAI is the same as NAS, NAU, NAL, and NAA? I mean, that was the question. Somehow you turned this into a discussion about LASIK.

I didn’t say it was unusual.

Ships registered in Liberia, Panama, Cambodia, and the Marshall Islands are not unusual either, even when they have no other connection to that country.

Flags of convenience have been the primary cause of the erosion of the jobs and wages of professional US Mariners. The “Norwegian” (and Lufthansa, and IAG, and ME3) models of operation are an equal threat to US professional pilot jobs and wages.

There are many other threats to our current status quo as well.

One of your your favorite tactics is to go after guys that complain about the “wrong” Norwegian, which you portray as making their argument invalid. The difference between NAS, NAI, NAU, NAL and NAA is trivial. They are effectively the same company.

Everything that these carriers are doing is currently legal and within the scope of international trade agreements and treaties (maybe not the ME3). Hopefully that will change. I regularly write my congressman and senators. I talk to other pilots about these issues and encourage them to do the same.
T28driver is offline  
Old 04-07-2018, 01:46 PM
  #53  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joachim's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 745
Default

Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Well, anyone with a pulse can get hired at the regionals right now. And in the past, anyone with a pulse could get hired at Eastern, TWA, Independence Air, and a host of other defunct airlines.

You've been hauling cargo for AirJapan for around a decade so any 'experience' you have being hired in the US is comically dated. IIRC, you even regaled at how fine an experience your commute from the states is - drinking Courvoisier on your 10+ hour flight to/from your domicile (Gen Lee style on flightinfo where you posted as, fittingly, Dumb Pilot).
From reviewing your 'experience' on flightinfo, you were busy trying to apply to Focus Air Cargo (defunct dirbag operation) at one point, living in MSP (running a side business renting out crashpads). You even stated that when you went to AirJapan, you were a regional pilot, so it's not like you've been hired by a lot of decent US companies. From reading your CV on flightinfo, it sounds like you've been hired by a lot of US bottomfeeders and were too impatient or unqualified to be hired by a reputable US carrier.
Don't pretend that getting hired with a "reputable" carrier in the USA is some great feat of merit. Depending on what carriers you define as being reputable, the process is either highly politicized or not particularly competitive at the moment. Technically, anyone with 1500 hours on a prop job can get in line for that coveted legacy job through flow and preferential hiring programmes. Not everyone desires to apply their decades worth of seniority to start over at an RJ outfit in order to have a reasonable chance of making it to AA,DL, UA. Making it to those destinations is largely based on your luck as far as fitting into whatever bracket HR favors at the moment (Mil-Flow-Female-Black-Gay). For those of us who are just regular mutts and don't have the time or luxury to participate in special interest events there just aren't many slots.

The Legacy game didn't favor me despite my slugging it two legs to RJ reserve while taking my degree while supporting my family. I did all this for a decade only so I could be in a favorable position with them "when the gates were to open". When hiring did start I was in for a rude awakening. A not so particularly talented female student of mine got hired at DL a year after touching her first RJ, Colleagues at competing RJ outfits who settled for inferior contracts were awarded flows in order to attract replacement pilots and keeping wages low.

In the case of LCC's there really isn't much difficulty involved with getting on board. I just wasn't interested in doing the same thing I had been doing for the last ten years on a slightly bigger plane.


Thank god Norwegian came along...
Joachim is offline  
Old 04-07-2018, 02:22 PM
  #54  
Gets Weekends Off
 
captjns's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,886
Default

Originally Posted by T28driver View Post
Flags of convenience have been the primary cause of the erosion of the jobs and wages of professional US Mariners. The “Norwegian” (and Lufthansa, and IAG, and ME3) models of operation are an equal threat to US professional pilot jobs and wages.
Negative....

The airline in your own back yard is your real threat. Outsourcing in the name of codesharing. Why if the airlines could sub service the work out to foreign carriers to save a buck... they would... and who knows someday they will.
captjns is offline  
Old 04-07-2018, 02:38 PM
  #55  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 171
Default

Originally Posted by captjns View Post
Negative....

The airline in your own back yard is your real threat. Outsourcing in the name of codesharing. Why if the airlines could sub service the work out to foreign carriers to save a buck... they would... and who knows someday they will.
I completely agree that this is one of many threats facing the US pilot profession. But it’s not the only one.

People love to make this an either/or argument. It’s not. Code sharing and JV agreements are a threat. The low cost foreign carriers are another.

It’s not a question of one being more of a threat than another. They are both threats to our profession. They are not the only threats. I’d be happy to have a discussion on code sharing agreements and outsourcing as well. But that isn’t the focus of this thread.

Edit: One additional thing to consider is that code sharing and joint ventures can be somewhat addressed through scope clauses in contract negotiations. No such remedy exists for combating WOW, Norwegian, and the others that will follow.
T28driver is offline  
Old 04-07-2018, 06:16 PM
  #56  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: guppy CA
Posts: 5,133
Default

Originally Posted by Joachim View Post
Don't pretend that getting hired with a "reputable" carrier in the USA is some great feat of merit. Depending on what carriers you define as being reputable, the process is either highly politicized or not particularly competitive at the moment. Technically, anyone with 1500 hours on a prop job can get in line for that coveted legacy job through flow and preferential hiring programmes. Not everyone desires to apply their decades worth of seniority to start over at an RJ outfit in order to have a reasonable chance of making it to AA,DL, UA. Making it to those destinations is largely based on your luck as far as fitting into whatever bracket HR favors at the moment (Mil-Flow-Female-Black-Gay). For those of us who are just regular mutts and don't have the time or luxury to participate in special interest events there just aren't many slots.

The Legacy game didn't favor me despite my slugging it two legs to RJ reserve while taking my degree while supporting my family. I did all this for a decade only so I could be in a favorable position with them "when the gates were to open". When hiring did start I was in for a rude awakening. A not so particularly talented female student of mine got hired at DL a year after touching her first RJ, Colleagues at competing RJ outfits who settled for inferior contracts were awarded flows in order to attract replacement pilots and keeping wages low.

In the case of LCC's there really isn't much difficulty involved with getting on board. I just wasn't interested in doing the same thing I had been doing for the last ten years on a slightly bigger plane.


Thank god Norwegian came along...
Well, if you can't get hired at a legacy right now, there are issues in your background and/or you didn't hire an interview consultant to look over your paperwork. Your comment about LCCs is humorous - WTF do you think Norwegian is?

As for The Dominican, whom my post was intended, he had the opportunity to get hired at a legacy in the 90s when one required little more than a pulse. I had 3 legacy interview offers along with one from JetBlue. I went with the first legacy that hired me.

It sounds like you took a paycut to chase the SJS. It will probably end up being a 100% paycut one of these days; losing money hand over fist with mid-70s or higher load factors is problematic. Transatlantic LCCs is nothing new; many have come before and all have failed.
Andy is offline  
Old 04-08-2018, 03:34 AM
  #57  
Gets Weekends Off
 
captjns's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,886
Default

Originally Posted by Joachim View Post
Norwegians own short haul operation is the third largest low cost carrier in Europe. Combined with EasyJet, Europe's second largest LCC, it is fair to say that they have plenty of feed on the European side. If you look at the focus cities in the US (e.g. FLL, EWR, OAK, IAH, DEN, SEA) it is not hard to see that they are aligning themselves with JB, Spirit, SW,AK, Frontier, et. al.
I’m not aware of any alignments between NAI or LCCs in the US. However, travelers are becoming savvy consumers. With that said with an IPad, Smart Phone, or computer, travelers can access websites to find the lowest fares for onwards travel from their US gateways. I do have to say that there are times that the Legacy Carriers Redeaux have lower fares that their LCC counterparts.

Same is applicable for U.S. pax traveling overseas too.
captjns is offline  
Old 04-08-2018, 08:06 AM
  #58  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Position: 6th place
Posts: 1,826
Default

Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Well, anyone with a pulse can get hired at the regionals right now. And in the past, anyone with a pulse could get hired at Eastern, TWA, Independence Air, and a host of other defunct airlines.



You've been hauling cargo for AirJapan for around a decade so any 'experience' you have being hired in the US is comically dated. IIRC, you even regaled at how fine an experience your commute from the states is - drinking Courvoisier on your 10+ hour flight to/from your domicile (Gen Lee style on flightinfo where you posted as, fittingly, Dumb Pilot).

From reviewing your 'experience' on flightinfo, you were busy trying to apply to Focus Air Cargo (defunct dirbag operation) at one point, living in MSP (running a side business renting out crashpads). You even stated that when you went to AirJapan, you were a regional pilot, so it's not like you've been hired by a lot of decent US companies. From reading your CV on flightinfo, it sounds like you've been hired by a lot of US bottomfeeders and were too impatient or unqualified to be hired by a reputable US carrier.


I would post a ‘finish him’ meme but looks like you took care of that
mainlineAF is offline  
Old 04-08-2018, 09:35 AM
  #59  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joachim's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 745
Default

Originally Posted by captjns View Post
I’m not aware of any alignments between NAI or LCCs in the US. However, travelers are becoming savvy consumers. With that said with an IPad, Smart Phone, or computer, travelers can access websites to find the lowest fares for onwards travel from their US gateways. I do have to say that there are times that the Legacy Carriers Redeaux have lower fares that their LCC counterparts.

Same is applicable for U.S. pax traveling overseas too.
My comment was based on Kjos public statement that he was seeking a collaborative between B6 and DY. I’m not aware of any definitive plans in regards to that either but the route structure conveniently coincides with that of several LCC hubs and Focus cities. But again, I’m not in the know.
Joachim is offline  
Old 04-08-2018, 06:18 PM
  #60  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Half wing's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2014
Position: 787 right
Posts: 504
Default

Originally Posted by spacemonkey View Post
Do you refute that flag of convenience schemes were the downfall of the us maritime industry?

If you understand that it was, then you understand why nai is pursuing a loophole that must not be allowed. It’s not just ****ing on pseudo scabs flyingwidebodies for regional wages
Yep! Can’t wait for NAI to go tango uniform.
Half wing is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
1st Supersonic
Atlas/Polar
20384
03-20-2024 10:15 PM
Whereisalpa
Delta
62
01-06-2016 07:36 AM
jdt30
United
60
12-09-2014 11:15 PM
Woofer
Foreign
275
06-20-2012 03:12 AM
SWAjet
Money Talk
12
12-10-2006 02:24 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices