Norwegian OSM...
11-30-2018, 08:09 PM
#21
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Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: Any one open
Posts: 47
Originally Posted by dera
4 year easyJet captain does NOT make 200k a year. Closer to half of that.
KLM is an exception in Europe, and the top pay for straight-up captains is not 300k, closer to 250k. Few make 300k but they often have other positions too.
Starting pay at KLM is around 60k. That's way higher than any other legacy. BA starting pay is around 35k.
BA top captains hit 200k, average is closer to 150k. LH is about the same.
AY, no-one makes more than 150k.
Also remember, these guys pay 50% or more in income taxes, and 20+% VAT etc.
Take home pay, apart from KLM, in European legacies is comparable to good regionals or ULCC in the US.
KLM is an exception in Europe, and the top pay for straight-up captains is not 300k, closer to 250k. Few make 300k but they often have other positions too.
Starting pay at KLM is around 60k. That's way higher than any other legacy. BA starting pay is around 35k.
BA top captains hit 200k, average is closer to 150k. LH is about the same.
AY, no-one makes more than 150k.
Also remember, these guys pay 50% or more in income taxes, and 20+% VAT etc.
Take home pay, apart from KLM, in European legacies is comparable to good regionals or ULCC in the US.
I think you will find that those BA salaries are in pounds sterling, which changes things significantly in the favor of the European airlines. I think you will also find that the other European numbers are in Euros. Most of the European Legacies pay their first year pilots very well, as compared to the USA. This is particularly true when considering that the average new hire pilot at a legacy in Europe is in their early 20’s. In the US, pilots at that age are at a regional, getting paid pretty much garbage. Although that garbage has gotten better as of late from what I read.
11-30-2018, 08:41 PM
#22
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,469
Originally Posted by GreenTailWhale
I think you will find that those BA salaries are in pounds sterling, which changes things significantly in the favor of the European airlines. I think you will also find that the other European numbers are in Euros. Most of the European Legacies pay their first year pilots very well, as compared to the USA. This is particularly true when considering that the average new hire pilot at a legacy in Europe is in their early 20’s. In the US, pilots at that age are at a regional, getting paid pretty much garbage. Although that garbage has gotten better as of late from what I read.
Starting salary for most legacies is worse than US regional starting salary right now.
I'm pretty sure KLM is the only one where you can break $60k your first year.
You can hit $60k on almost every regional in the US first year.
Also, don't get me started on training bonds, something almost every European carrier has today.
Ryanair still makes you pay for interview (and training if you pass the interview).
Also - when people talk about widebody pay, you need to remember that widebody is the junior spot in a lot of EU carriers. Plenty of pilots start as CRC or even MPL kind of position in a widebody, then move on to the right seat on a narrowbody. The seniority system isn't like it is in the US. A lot of companies pay the same for narrow- and widebodies. There are some overrides, but often those are not very significant. I've got a lot of friends who moved from WB to NB because they didn't like the lifestyle, and they both pay the same.
You can't really compare US and EU carriers, they are just not the same. And the pay is much, much lower especially if you look at take home numbers in EU, than in the US.
(then again - have 3 kids in college and EU is waaay more affordable, again - different strokes for different folks).
12-01-2018, 12:55 AM
#23
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: Any one open
Posts: 47
Originally Posted by dera
I'm from Europe, I lived there for 30 years. I've got a lot of friends flying around the continent for pretty much every airline out there.
Starting salary for most legacies is worse than US regional starting salary right now.
I'm pretty sure KLM is the only one where you can break $60k your first year.
You can hit $60k on almost every regional in the US first year.
Also, don't get me started on training bonds, something almost every European carrier has today.
Ryanair still makes you pay for interview (and training if you pass the interview).
Also - when people talk about widebody pay, you need to remember that widebody is the junior spot in a lot of EU carriers. Plenty of pilots start as CRC or even MPL kind of position in a widebody, then move on to the right seat on a narrowbody. The seniority system isn't like it is in the US. A lot of companies pay the same for narrow- and widebodies. There are some overrides, but often those are not very significant. I've got a lot of friends who moved from WB to NB because they didn't like the lifestyle, and they both pay the same.
You can't really compare US and EU carriers, they are just not the same. And the pay is much, much lower especially if you look at take home numbers in EU, than in the US.
(then again - have 3 kids in college and EU is waaay more affordable, again - different strokes for different folks).
Starting salary for most legacies is worse than US regional starting salary right now.
I'm pretty sure KLM is the only one where you can break $60k your first year.
You can hit $60k on almost every regional in the US first year.
Also, don't get me started on training bonds, something almost every European carrier has today.
Ryanair still makes you pay for interview (and training if you pass the interview).
Also - when people talk about widebody pay, you need to remember that widebody is the junior spot in a lot of EU carriers. Plenty of pilots start as CRC or even MPL kind of position in a widebody, then move on to the right seat on a narrowbody. The seniority system isn't like it is in the US. A lot of companies pay the same for narrow- and widebodies. There are some overrides, but often those are not very significant. I've got a lot of friends who moved from WB to NB because they didn't like the lifestyle, and they both pay the same.
You can't really compare US and EU carriers, they are just not the same. And the pay is much, much lower especially if you look at take home numbers in EU, than in the US.
(then again - have 3 kids in college and EU is waaay more affordable, again - different strokes for different folks).
Pilot Jobs Network - Recruitment news for airline pilots and aviation schools which states salaries from many airlines.
... as well as simple google searches which bring up news media articles with salaries from Lufthansa and BA. A simple search of pprune also disagrees with your statements. Not to mention, I also have several friends at both BA and Lufthansa, and they also disagree with your statements. I guess the three of them, along with pprune, the media, and pilotjobsnetowork, could all be lying. Darn fake news. Anyways, no point in arguing. As long as we all can support our families on whatever salaries we earn...is all that matters.
Safe flights, and Happy Holidays
12-01-2018, 03:49 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2018
Posts: 151
Originally Posted by GreenTailWhale
I think you will find that those BA salaries are in pounds sterling, which changes things significantly in the favor of the European airlines. I think you will also find that the other European numbers are in Euros. Most of the European Legacies pay their first year pilots very well, as compared to the USA. This is particularly true when considering that the average new hire pilot at a legacy in Europe is in their early 20’s. In the US, pilots at that age are at a regional, getting paid pretty much garbage. Although that garbage has gotten better as of late from what I read.
The only thing better they have is a ton of vacation time from day one. 30-40 days a year easy.
12-01-2018, 07:21 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,912
Originally Posted by dera
Also, don't get me started on training bonds, something almost every European carrier has today.
Ryanair still makes you pay for interview (and training if you pass the interview).
https://careers.ryanair.com/cadets/
12-01-2018, 10:07 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,067
Originally Posted by dera
4 year easyJet captain does NOT make 200k a year. Closer to half of that.
12-02-2018, 02:41 AM
#28
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,469
Originally Posted by NEDude
My offer from easyJet two years ago, as a direct entry captain based in LGW, started at about $145,000 (based on today's conversion rate) and climbed to around $170,000 by year five.
Need to be more specific with currencies.
12-02-2018, 03:48 AM
#29
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,469
Originally Posted by dera
So that's what, €120k? Pretty far from 200k.
Need to be more specific with currencies.
Need to be more specific with currencies.
12-02-2018, 08:11 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,067
Originally Posted by dera
So that's what, €120k? Pretty far from 200k.
Need to be more specific with currencies.
Need to be more specific with currencies.
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