BigfatQ

Germanwings pilots used to be LH pilots, with slightly lower t&c's and after a few years they could move on to LH. Now it seems new hires are not treated the same anymore. Anyways Germanwings is only one of six airlines flying for the Eurowings brand

NEDude

Same with SAS. I would love to fly for SAS, but there is no way I can afford to. The starting pay is atrocious, and remains that way for many years. Even my wife's tiny little charter airline pays significantly more than SAS for the first several years.

dera

The 200k/year guys are the 350 guys who are also in training department and/or management. The only 200k+ guy I can think of there is also the head of training. The old guys make good money, but that's not possible for someone hired today.

The "Mainline" top hourly wage for captains is €77.93 after 22 years with a 150hr/month guarantee, plus a bit of cheddar on top for "per diem" etc. And the new guys will never get to that grade, they are capped to lower max rate.
min 10 days off per month.

The European airlines are not what they were 10-20 years ago, and Norwegian is in line with the rest.

Denti

Well, some of their A330 OPS have been moved to the contractor fake self employed brussels airline operation. However, yes, SXD is still operating all its A330s for Eurowings, some of them now out of MUC, others out of DUS. Brussels operates all of the Eurowings A340s though, same employment model as mentioned above.

Wasn't aware that €36K is now considered legacy starting pay, when easyJet second officers earn nearly €52k starting salary right out of flightschool on the german contract. Which is not high either, but considering that they will be on the left side within 5 to 6 years at €170k it is not bad at all.

Joachim

The majority of DY pilots come from the likes of easyjet and Ryanair. The quality of life is better according to the ones I've spoken to. Additionally, the payscales publicized on APC are only refective of the initial 3 year contract. After that pilots are transitioned to an indefinite "in house" contract. They retain their base pay up to 65 hours after which they get paid $130-$200/hr dependent on position and location. Some bases get retirement contributions and other benefits as well.

Andy

Codeshare is a way of limiting the number of flights between city pairs to the benefit of airlines in both countries.

As an example, ORD-FRA on 10 Jan. There are 3 nonstops between LH and UA. UA flies 2 and LH flies one. If there were no codeshare, it's likely that both airlines would operate additional flights between the city pairs, driving down revenues to the point where the route would, at best, be marginally profitable.

I don't know about AA or DL contracts but a section of United's pilot agreement has codeshare limitations... 1-C-3 Foreign Air Carrier Code Share Agreements

Are you actually trying to suggest that only US carriers should be flying internationally if one of the city pairs is in the US? Or are you naively suggesting that codesharing be eliminated, which would cause a glut of seats flown internationally, driving down airline revenues and eventually pilot wages?

Andy

What is wrong with europilots? One could do better both monetarily and quality of life/time off flying in Asia.

Until europilots walk away from such ludicrous flying jobs, wages will continue to suck in euroland. Surely there are jobs with better working conditions/higher pay in euroland that don't involve flying aircraft.

Andy

Awesome. The example given is a twice weekly flight to HAV. Technically meets the TATL criteria, but doesn't have a US or Canadian city pair.

captjns

I do, Andy, object to putting passengers on airlines outsourced, lower cost labor, in the name of code sharing, predominantly with Aisian carriers.

Increases profits for the airline... which is good... inhibits potential income for employees... which is... well you can figure the rest.

Andy

Once again, you fail to understand how many flights those Asian carriers would fly to US city pairs absent a codeshare that restricts the number of flights they are permitted to operate. Our contract has specific limitations so all death* alliance operators who fly into the US have to abide by those restrictions.

No codeshare means they'd flood the market, just as Norwegian did.