Grumble

Any one that went to NAI wasn’t likely to get hired at a US Major to begin with. AMF.

captjns

Well... not necessarily true Grumble. There are late fifties and older expats who wanted to return to the US. They were not ready to retire. And of course, due to seniority, they’d probably never upgrade prior to reaching retirement. Other than limited ACMIs, NAI was a viable DEC for those not ready to hang up the goggles.

NEDude

Wait, you actually want some evidence of those claims?! How dare you counter vitriolic rhetoric with a request for simple evidence of its truthfulness!

captjns

Mea culpa

Sniper66

You are funny
It’s alpa’s fault of course

Can you enlighten us about the past

2StgTurbine

They would not need to upgrade. They would make more in the right seat of a legacy than the left seat at NAI.

captjns

You’re missing the point... After many years in seat 1L-W... would you want to downgrade? After 35 years in the industry, would you want to be number gazillion on the seniority list??? Would you want to sit reserve in NYC, ORD, of BOS in the winter in a crash pad? Its not always about $$$ 2Stg.

2StgTurbine

I think that is the hang up. Most can't take the hit to their ego. Most new hires today can be off reserve in a few months if they aren't too picky with bases or equipment.

NEDude

....Sigh....I have, several times already.

Freedom Air and GoJet guys have had no issues getting hired. I know four former Freedom Air guys who had zero issues getting hired by legacy/major/major cargo airlines. Two are at FedEx, one at Delta and one is at Southwest. Freedom Air never was brought up in their interviews. I personally know a former GoJet guy at United, and have two friends of friends who are former GoJet guys, one is at UPS and the other is at American. Again, their association with GoJet never came up during their interview process. Overwhelmingly people have forgotten about FreedomAir and GoJet and why they are supposed to hate them.

There was a point in time where Southwest was the irreverent upstart in the industry. People who could not get real jobs went to Southwest. The industry fought against them for decades. Now they are one of the most desirable carriers to work for.

When UPS first started, their seniority list was filled with ex-cargo guys who could not land a job at a "real" airline. Their pay was terrible and it was seen as a dead end job. Now UPS is one of the most prized jobs in the industry.

Continental was filled with real, honest to goodness, on the "Jumpseat Protection List" ALPA scabs. When ALPA felt they could land the Continental pilot group, and secure a lot more money, ALPA officially forgave the scabs and welcomed them back into the fold with open arms.

When Virgin America started, it was fought against by the industry and all the unions. The pilots who went there were the guys who could not get hired at a legacy airline. They would be blacklisted and never get a real job. Now all those guys are ALPA members in good standing an flying for a legacy airline.

Do you need more examples? Okay, here is another: PeoplExpress was considered a bottom feeder airline. Pilots were paid worse and even had to help clean the cabin. You went to PeoplExpress because you could not find a job at any good airline. The guys who went there retired from Continental and United, or are the senior guys at United today.

The history shows quite clearly that unless you are an honest to goodness, legitimate scab, flying for a certain "bad" company will not make much of a difference down the road. And even if you are a real life, legitimate scab, there is a precedent for ALPA forgiving you and/or flying for a legacy airline. Let's not forget that legacy United also had a huge number of scabs as well.

bottoms up

While you bay be correct in some of your assumption, youth is starting to take over the ranks of LECs in ALPA. Also there are some who directly witnessed firsthand the effects of scabs as their father/mother lost their job. There are others who have had to fly with such scabs and hear their cries and wormy excuse over the years and have turned a deaf ear. I am one! I am also very vocal in our LEC/MEC to try to limit the amount of people who would do nothing but turn their back to their fellow pilot for the all mighty dollar. There are still a highly proud bunch who have had their pensions stolen, upgrades delayed, and have been told lies over and over. We are not about to legitimize someone’s poor decision to help undersell our profession over a quick upgrade. You may cast all the stones you wish but the facts remain that there are still many who try to uphold this profession and leave it better for the next generation rather than to sell out to the lowest bidder. We don’t always get it right but we try to improve time and time again.