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Australian pilot shortage
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Its my understanding thats its a pain in the ass to get your US certificates transfered over.....
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Even bigger to get the right to work...
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Rex are only have trouble because they don't want to pay what pilots are worth nowdays.
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Originally Posted by schwanm
(Post 246566)
Rex are only have trouble because they don't want to pay what pilots are worth nowdays.
Airlines will always attempt to pay pilots as little as possible, in fact if they can the pilot to pay them to fly all the better (for them). For those who haven't read "Flying the Line Pt. I & II" Amazon has used copies starting under a dollar. The books focus on the history of ALPA, but if you read beyond that I think you'll see how important labor union is flying have been - and continue to be to pilots. For you new pilots out there, read a few books about piloting history so that we collectively don't repeat mistakes of the past. |
Originally Posted by HSLD
(Post 246604)
I hope that never happens in the US :p
Airlines will always attempt to pay pilots as little as possible, in fact if they can the pilot to pay them to fly all the better (for them). For those who haven't read "Flying the Line Pt. I & II" Amazon has used copies starting under a dollar. The books focus on the history of ALPA, but if you read beyond that I think you'll see how important labor union is flying have been - and continue to be to pilots. For you new pilots out there, read a few books about piloting history so that we collectively don't repeat mistakes of the past. |
Originally Posted by jmackin
(Post 246656)
Like paying for a typeraiting:rolleyes:
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Who does that? Everybody in Australia, other than mainline QF guy's. Mayfly really has to chime in here as he just went through the whole conversion process, as well as dealing with prop operators that thought he should get some real 'Australia' time. What non-sense. We had the odd person in NZ with that idea as well but it appears to have vanished.
But. . .I wouldn't break out the passports just yet. You will still need to get your own work permit for at least the nearish (two years)time. And from what Mayfly tells me you will still require a PR visa to get on a decent jet operator. The freighter guy's like Asian Express do not pay well at all for night freight jet job's, but they (Toll Freight, Australian Air Express)may take you with just a work permit and a rating. |
Start paying descent money so new blood enters the field and maybe it wouldn't be an issue!! From what I've been hearing down under even AirNZ guys are heading to Cathay for the $ and upward movement.
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I do not think that QF and ANZ will ever hurt for pilots. To consider how many are flying over seas (EK, EY, QF, QA, SIN...) i am sure atleast close to half od them would return to their home countries...i know i would
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Too bad I don't think it would do me any good that I lived in Oz for a year when I was a kid... wouldn't mind going back there, but it sounds like a hassle and half with little upside.
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EK guy's are unlikely to come back to ANZ or QF as they would be looking at cruise pilot positions. I understand that many at EK and CX are looking at the V Australia deal as it works with all that 777 time they have. With B787's going to J Star it makes sense that people would come back to Oz for that as well.
I think however that Air NZ would like to hear from people overseas, with decent experience and who can manage the work permit fairly easily. What about Rex though? In the article they said they looked at recruiting out of the Ukraine!?! Did they bother to ask imigration or the CAA before hand? Sounds unlikely to me, but the SA thing makes sense. Unless they win the world cup, then it'll be off for sure. |
Ex-USAF, recently moved to the southern hemisphere with my Aussie, and just completed a FAA ATP to CASA ATPL conversion. Here’s the scoop…
2 main issues facing a pilot wanting to work down under presently: Immigration: if you wanna fly jets with the major players i.e. QANTAS, Virgin Blue, Jet Star you MUST hold Australian Permanent Residency with either a visa, Oz passport, or citizenship (most all the regionals also have a similar requirement). Presently pilots aren’t on the Skilled Occupation List (SOL) but are on the Employer Nomination Scheme Occupation List (ENSOL). The short of this is that Oz won’t just be giving you a visa to come work as a pilot. You’ll either need to get a visa on your own merits (birth, spouse, family) or be nominated by a specific airline employer (QF/VB/J* don’t nominate). If the regional do start doing this, know that this is a position specific visa so you just can’t quit one airline and join another - you’ll need a new visa. Licence Conversion: presently this is not an easy or inexpensive process. My background is USAF, nearly 8 years of world wide heavy flying experience, and I hold numerous jet type ratings on my FAA ATP. In order to convert my licence I was required to pass 3 written exams: Instrument Rating Exam (IREX): 3.5 Hour Exam / 70% to Pass CPL Flight Rules & Air Law (CLWA): 2.0 Hour Exam / 80% to Pass ATPL Air Law (AALW): 1.5 Hour Exam / 80% to Pass *NOTE: some airlines want credits in ALL ATPL Theory subjects (that’s 7 written tests). Also unless you have formerly flow in Australia, you will have to do a flight test for the initial issue of a Multi-Engine Command Instrument Rating (MECIR) which is separate from the ATPL. I know it is odd for us North Americans, but you can have an ATPL and not be instrument rated in Oz. Now the flight test, isn’t some quick All-ATPs course where you get ‘the gouge’ and fly a few approaches. In order to get all the NAVAID endorsements on your initial MECIR you will need to fly an ILS / NDB / VOR / RNAV (GNSS) / DGA (DME or GPS Arrival – Aussie procedure) and HOLD, all while getting the usual run of single engine, circling, and missed approaches. I liken it more to a full route check as you are expected to fly to another airport, utilize airways, and know and operate under all of Australia’s vast expanse of Civil Aviation Regulations (CARs) and Orders (CAOs). In my case that equated to a 3 hour flight test, that covered 4 different airports, to get all the endorsements. By now I am sure you are wondering what low, low, price all this mandatory fun will cost me… Cost: (Presently .90 AUD = 1 USD) Flight Training (in a light twin BE76 / PA44). Costs vary 300-500/hr DUAL depending on region. Unless you are current/proficient in a light twin expect about 10 hours of flight time including your flight test: 4000 / 3600 Examiner Fees: 400 / 360 CASA Certificate of Validation (needed for initial flight training): 150 / 135 CASA ATPL Licensing / Ratings / Endorsements Fee: 180 / 162 CASA Class 1 Medical Medical Examiner Fees: 150 / 135 Ophthalmologist: 160 / 144 Blood Work: 40 / 36 CASA Processing Fee: 75 / 68 Written Exam Fees IREX: 174 / 156 CLWA: 154 / 139 AALW: 144 / 130 Publications (must maintain own copy – none provided by CASA for testing/flight) Approach Plates: 177 / 160 CAR, CAO, ERSA, AIP, Charts (their FARs etc): 660 / 594 Aviation Security Identification Card (Background check): 196 / 176 GRAND TOTAL (TO CONVERT YOUR LICENSE): 6660 AUD or 5995 USD So now with a visa and licence in hand you can start hunting for that dream job! Other things to consider are the fact that the Oz aviation scene is closer in relation to the very thorough, if not a pit padantic, British/JAA aviation system. Given that aussie pilots tend to be more theory based, one must recognise that the system is just different here and that this may not be to your liking. Also Australia is a large supplier of pilots to the world market (Cathay, Emirates, etc) so be fore warned there will be a large amount of pilots chasing the big jobs. Like all things in aviation this is subject to change, but it should give you an idea of the PRESENT system and some of the issues. The bottom line is that if you are willing to jump through the hoops you will find a job in Oz! But I think it will take more than just a love of kangaroos to keep you going some days. MayFly P.S. After 5 months I still don't have my VISA and am looking to off shore contract work in the interim. Other info on Oz Aviation: CASA at http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/transfer.htm Australian Federation of Air Pilots http://www.afap.org.au Dunnunda and Godzone forums at http://www.pprune.org |
Thanks for that one mate. . .what's the scoop with RA? Still dealing with them? I'll have to get Jimmy on that car pretty quick as I just looked at the date.
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Everything is on track...sent you an e-mail!
MF(777) |
May Fly--Hiring at Brown will slow for a while, but I bet it picks up next spring. If/when we open the HKG base, you'll be a perfect fit. I don't think it would be hard to get to HKG from SYD on a UPS jumpseat. (You getting to SYD would be a different story.)
I sure hope all your work pays off. I was actually surpised it did not cost as much as it did for you to convert. That's comparable to a 737 type. |
Originally Posted by MayFly135s
(Post 247272)
Ex-USAF, recently moved to the southern hemisphere with my Aussie, and just completed a FAA ATP to CASA ATPL conversion. Here’s the scoop…
2 main issues facing a pilot wanting to work down under presently: Immigration: if you wanna fly jets with the major players i.e. QANTAS, Virgin Blue, Jet Star you MUST hold Australian Permanent Residency with either a visa, Oz passport, or citizenship (most all the regionals also have a similar requirement). Presently pilots aren’t on the Skilled Occupation List (SOL) but are on the Employer Nomination Scheme Occupation List (ENSOL). The short of this is that Oz won’t just be giving you a visa to come work as a pilot. You’ll either need to get a visa on your own merits (birth, spouse, family) or be nominated by a specific airline employer (QF/VB/J* don’t nominate). If the regional do start doing this, know that this is a position specific visa so you just can’t quit one airline and join another - you’ll need a new visa. Licence Conversion: presently this is not an easy or inexpensive process. My background is USAF, nearly 8 years of world wide heavy flying experience, and I hold numerous jet type ratings on my FAA ATP. In order to convert my licence I was required to pass 3 written exams: Instrument Rating Exam (IREX): 3.5 Hour Exam / 70% to Pass CPL Flight Rules & Air Law (CLWA): 2.0 Hour Exam / 80% to Pass ATPL Air Law (AALW): 1.5 Hour Exam / 80% to Pass *NOTE: some airlines want credits in ALL ATPL Theory subjects (that’s 7 written tests). Also unless you have formerly flow in Australia, you will have to do a flight test for the initial issue of a Multi-Engine Command Instrument Rating (MECIR) which is separate from the ATPL. I know it is odd for us North Americans, but you can have an ATPL and not be instrument rated in Oz. Now the flight test, isn’t some quick All-ATPs course where you get ‘the gouge’ and fly a few approaches. In order to get all the NAVAID endorsements on your initial MECIR you will need to fly an ILS / NDB / VOR / RNAV (GNSS) / DGA (DME or GPS Arrival – Aussie procedure) and HOLD, all while getting the usual run of single engine, circling, and missed approaches. I liken it more to a full route check as you are expected to fly to another airport, utilize airways, and know and operate under all of Australia’s vast expanse of Civil Aviation Regulations (CARs) and Orders (CAOs). In my case that equated to a 3 hour flight test, that covered 4 different airports, to get all the endorsements. By now I am sure you are wondering what low, low, price all this mandatory fun will cost me… Cost: (Presently .90 AUD = 1 USD) Flight Training (in a light twin BE76 / PA44). Costs vary 300-500/hr DUAL depending on region. Unless you are current/proficient in a light twin expect about 10 hours of flight time including your flight test: 4000 / 3600 Examiner Fees: 400 / 360 CASA Certificate of Validation (needed for initial flight training): 150 / 135 CASA ATPL Licensing / Ratings / Endorsements Fee: 180 / 162 CASA Class 1 Medical Medical Examiner Fees: 150 / 135 Ophthalmologist: 160 / 144 Blood Work: 40 / 36 CASA Processing Fee: 75 / 68 Written Exam Fees IREX: 174 / 156 CLWA: 154 / 139 AALW: 144 / 130 Publications (must maintain own copy – none provided by CASA for testing/flight) Approach Plates: 177 / 160 CAR, CAO, ERSA, AIP, Charts (their FARs etc): 660 / 594 Aviation Security Identification Card (Background check): 196 / 176 GRAND TOTAL (TO CONVERT YOUR LICENSE): 6660 AUD or 5995 USD So now with a visa and licence in hand you can start hunting for that dream job! Other things to consider are the fact that the Oz aviation scene is closer in relation to the very thorough, if not a pit padantic, British/JAA aviation system. Given that aussie pilots tend to be more theory based, one must recognise that the system is just different here and that this may not be to your liking. Also Australia is a large supplier of pilots to the world market (Cathay, Emirates, etc) so be fore warned there will be a large amount of pilots chasing the big jobs. Like all things in aviation this is subject to change, but it should give you an idea of the PRESENT system and some of the issues. The bottom line is that if you are willing to jump through the hoops you will find a job in Oz! But I think it will take more than just a love of kangaroos to keep you going some days. MayFly P.S. After 5 months I still don't have my VISA and am looking to off shore contract work in the interim. Other info on Oz Aviation: CASA at http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/transfer.htm Australian Federation of Air Pilots http://www.afap.org.au Dunnunda and Godzone forums at http://www.pprune.org |
Yes, there is a shortage in Australia.
Just saw an ad that they are willing to sponser work visas for Captains and Fo's if typed in ERJ 175 http://www.avianation.com/aviation_j...bID=7305688107 the airline is called skyairworld good luck |
Originally Posted by MayFly135s
(Post 247272)
Other things to consider are the fact that the Oz aviation scene is closer in relation to the very thorough, if not a pit padantic, British/JAA aviation system. Given that aussie pilots tend to be more theory based, one must recognise that the system is just different here and that this may not be to your liking.
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