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Air India or Jet Air
Any thoughts on the pros and cons of working for Air India vs Jet Air? I'm looking at the Titan Aviation contract agency for Jet Air and possibly Next-Gen for Air India. I'm a first time contractor, and could use some insight!
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What do you want to know? My brother in law works as the Chief Medical Officer for an airline (GoAir Airways) in India - I can ask him.
From what I know, Air India is a govt. company and Jet Airways is privately owned. My dad worked for Air India for 30+ years until he retired. I'd go with Jet Airways over Air India any day. |
A good friend just left Air India as he was not in the least impressed. Might have been pertly due to the contract agency, but it sounded like the operation was not so great.
There are a number of my former employers B777 pilots at Jet Airways, and I flew with some of their guy's when they did training with us. Apparently it is a pretty good gig; night and day to AI. |
I suggest you apply directly to Jet Airways. They do not require the use of a contactor.
For Air India stay away from Next Gen. and Rishworth. I found the contract from Sigmar to be reasonable with no penalties for termination. |
Don't Go With Air India!
I must warn my fellow brothers to avoid Next Generation Aviation, who is the Crew Leasing Company to Air India. They are liars and cheats, who promise reimbursement for air travel to screenings, but never repay you. They promise "Guaranteed" jobs, that do not exist! I turned down an interview in China for a good job, on the word from Next Generation Aviation, that "I had a job with Air India!" When I flew around the world to screen with them, there was no guaranteed job waiting. Regarding Jet Airways in Mumbai, India, you can apply directly with them, without the use of any Crew Leasing company or contractor. Also, Air India does NOT pay your Indian Income Taxes! That will be a huge chunk of your salary! My advice and answer to your question? Go with Jet Airways and apply directly on their website. However, do not expect to get reimbursed for your air travel from Jet Airways, either. They also never repaid me.
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I left Air India after 6 months as a 777 FO because of my concerns about the lack of basic (international) airline safety standards. While some things you can deal with the whole picture made me take a hard look if this was a company I wanted on my resume.
1. The almost zero CRM 2. Constant smoking in the cockpit 3. Cockpit door kept unlocked for all (welcomed or other) to enter the flight deck 4. Briefings at dispatch conducted in Hindi 5. Failure to brief the departure or approach while on the flight deck 6. Continued confusion as to who is the PF and the PM - Cmdr seems to want to do everything and not include the FO, in ANY of the operational functions of the aeroplane 7. Hotel accommodation in Delhi, The Ashok Hotel: - there is no air conditioning. There is a "fan" system only. - the fridge in the room does not work 99% of the time - sometimes there is hot water available, sometimes not - food quality is very (hygienically) poor leaving many with "stomach problems" time after time when staying there. 8. Contractual terms between AI and the hosting hotels change without ANY notification to the crew from AI or the hotel concerned. The other piece of the puzzel really depends on two main things... 1. Capt or FO? As a Capt you are obviously more of a commodity and get more of a say in your schedule. Most CAPTs are on a 7 on/6 off (days) schedule versus FOs on 6 on/2 off (wks). As a CAPT most flights tend to be JFK-DEL/BOM and as a rule of thumb expect to be the cruise relief to a 40 something Indian Capt despite what experience you bring to the table. Expat FOs are also primarily used in the cruise relief position. Also there must be an Indian on the crew so any 2 man operations won't be with another expat. 2. Do you live in/near an Air India destination (JKF, ORD, LHR, BHX)? Air India only pays to get you from one of their destinations to the plane, so if you live off line the commute is on your own dime/time. Most of the guys that are happy live in the NYC/BOS/DC area so when they land they are home. So for me the cultural and company issues drove me on to a professional airline. As always I am happy to put guys in touch with current AI expat Capt/FOs MF |
Air India or Jet Airways
I am going to an interview at both Air India and Jet Airways next month for a B-737 Captain position. Does anyone have current information on the conditions at either of these airlines. I understand that Air India doesn't have a very good reputation, but the contract conditions offered are a bit better than at Jet. Is it possible to fly the international routes at Air India? Jet uses local pilots to fly to the better international routes as that is their preference.
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WhatNameIsLeft was never promised a job with Air India without successful completion of a simulator evaluation. He was told by NexGen and Air India that if he passed the screening and sim check, that they would definitely offer him the job. This Captain was one of 5 other Captains that had sim checks that day with Air India and was the only one not offered the job due to multiple failures during the sim evaluation. NexGen bent over backwards to accommodate this Captain, but in the end, it was Air India that declined him, Not NexGen! This Captain seems to not be able to differentiate between the contractor and the airline. NexGen even went back to Air India to plead for a re-check and was turned down. NexGen has never made a promise in writing that it has not kept. The travel reimbursement was supposed to be made by Air India, and NexGen ended up making the payment instead.
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Boomerang;
Perhaps take a re-read of Mayfly's post. He's a very good friend of mine and I would take what he says very seriously. He and I had numerous conversations before, during and after his contract at AI. He knows of what he speaks. The Indians that I have spoken to don't even want to go there. As for Jet Airways, there are a number of Air NZ people there on LOA and all say they love it (all on the B777). The money is good, the schedules are good and they all live in Bruxelles. Heck, if I was an ATR72 training captain I'd probably be there with what they pay, but perhaps an ATR skipper would see to set me straight. The jet side is, as far as I have seen, pretty decent. |
Originally Posted by Captain Michael
(Post 456596)
WhatNameIsLeft was never promised a job with Air India without successful completion of a simulator evaluation. He was told by NexGen and Air India that if he passed the screening and sim check, that they would definitely offer him the job. This Captain was one of 5 other Captains that had sim checks that day with Air India and was the only one not offered the job due to multiple failures during the sim evaluation. NexGen bent over backwards to accommodate this Captain, but in the end, it was Air India that declined him, Not NexGen! This Captain seems to not be able to differentiate between the contractor and the airline. NexGen even went back to Air India to plead for a re-check and was turned down. NexGen has never made a promise in writing that it has not kept. The travel reimbursement was supposed to be made by Air India, and NexGen ended up making the payment instead.
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Originally Posted by MayFly135s
(Post 450143)
I left Air India after 6 months as a 777 FO because of my concerns about the lack of basic (international) airline safety standards. While some things you can deal with the whole picture made me take a hard look if this was a company I wanted on my resume.
1. The almost zero CRM 2. Constant smoking in the cockpit 3. Cockpit door kept unlocked for all (welcomed or other) to enter the flight deck 4. Briefings at dispatch conducted in Hindi 5. Failure to brief the departure or approach while on the flight deck 6. Continued confusion as to who is the PF and the PM - Cmdr seems to want to do everything and not include the FO, in ANY of the operational functions of the aeroplane 7. Hotel accommodation in Delhi, The Ashok Hotel: - there is no air conditioning. There is a "fan" system only. - the fridge in the room does not work 99% of the time - sometimes there is hot water available, sometimes not - food quality is very (hygienically) poor leaving many with "stomach problems" time after time when staying there. 8. Contractual terms between AI and the hosting hotels change without ANY notification to the crew from AI or the hotel concerned. The other piece of the puzzel really depends on two main things... 1. Capt or FO? As a Capt you are obviously more of a commodity and get more of a say in your schedule. Most CAPTs are on a 7 on/6 off (days) schedule versus FOs on 6 on/2 off (wks). As a CAPT most flights tend to be JFK-DEL/BOM and as a rule of thumb expect to be the cruise relief to a 40 something Indian Capt despite what experience you bring to the table. Expat FOs are also primarily used in the cruise relief position. Also there must be an Indian on the crew so any 2 man operations won't be with another expat. 2. Do you live in/near an Air India destination (JKF, ORD, LHR, BHX)? Air India only pays to get you from one of their destinations to the plane, so if you live off line the commute is on your own dime/time. Most of the guys that are happy live in the NYC/BOS/DC area so when they land they are home. So for me the cultural and company issues drove me on to a professional airline. As always I am happy to put guys in touch with current AI expat Capt/FOs MF I have heard this many times from other people I was furloughed with that tried Air India, and even the same about Korean Air. Stay far away from Air India is word Im getting, and many of those guys lived within 20 mins of JFK. That is a good list above... its the same stuff I have heard. Really no SOP's capts just make up stuff as they go. |
also one more question... how many people applying for these jobs have 100 hours on the 777? Or are most people applying for the 737 stuff?
Where are they finding people that have at least 100hrs on the 777 to fill these jobs? Just a question not a knock... |
For the 777 FOs Air India could not get the experience they were looking for at the price they were paying. Of the initial 16 FOs all of us purchased a self funded 777 rating; Rishworth negotiated for Air India/DGCA to take us with zero time on type.
Most of the guys+gal came from BE1900 or Metro's so it was a gamble that worked out. In exchange for the poor conditions they will get widebody/jet time and move onto other jobs. However, despite what Rishworth may say, Air India has no plans to move expats FOs to 777 Captains (and rightfully so since there are local FOs with 4 years/3000+ hours on type that have not upgraded). Bit of history: on 1 Jun 08, the DGCA decided to have all expat FOs removed from the country. Up until a few days prior to 1 June we were to be terminated. There was another batch of 8 self funded 777 ratings (4 complete/4 in training) that were told to go get their old jobs back! The DGCA timeline is now shifted to Jun 2010 (I believe) and only a handful of the previous 2nd batch of 8 are now going to Air India. My advice is buyer beware with Air India, the DGCA, and Rishworth for that matter. Upon terminating my contract (for documented breaches of contract, safety, and legal concerns) both Air India and Rishworth refuse to pay not only outstanding wages, but also visa fees and airline ticket fees from my initial start with Air India. |
Originally Posted by MayFly135s
(Post 470213)
For the 777 FOs Air India could not get the experience they were looking for at the price they were paying. Of the initial 16 FOs all of us purchased a self funded 777 rating; Rishworth negotiated for Air India/DGCA to take us with zero time on type.
Most of the guys+gal came from BE1900 or Metro's so it was a gamble that worked out. In exchange for the poor conditions they will get widebody/jet time and move onto other jobs. However, despite what Rishworth may say, Air India has no plans to move expats FOs to 777 Captains (and rightfully so since there are local FOs with 4 years/3000+ hours on type that have not upgraded). Bit of history: on 1 Jun 08, the DGCA decided to have all expat FOs removed from the country. Up until a few days prior to 1 June we were to be terminated. There was another batch of 8 self funded 777 ratings (4 complete/4 in training) that were told to go get their old jobs back! The DGCA timeline is now shifted to Jun 2010 (I believe) and only a handful of the previous 2nd batch of 8 are now going to Air India. My advice is buyer beware with Air India, the DGCA, and Rishworth for that matter. Upon terminating my contract (for documented breaches of contract, safety, and legal concerns) both Air India and Rishworth refuse to pay not only outstanding wages, but also visa fees and airline ticket fees from my initial start with Air India. You know I go on these websites looking at these jobs and the min's are like 1,000tt which seems pretty darn low, and then they throw in a type + 100 to 500 hours... Where are you now if you dont mind me asking? |
Always happy to share my little bit of knowledge and help those silly enough to follow in my footsteps.
Those Metro and 1900 drivers all had a minimum of 3-4000+ hours when they got hired onto the Air India 777 contract so they are by no means inexperienced aviators. I don't know of anyone with 1000TT and a 777 endorsement getting hired. As for me I ended up at Cathay and am just finishing up my simulator phase on the A330. |
Originally Posted by MayFly135s
(Post 471603)
Always happy to share my little bit of knowledge and help those silly enough to follow in my footsteps.
Those Metro and 1900 drivers all had a minimum of 3-4000+ hours when they got hired onto the Air India 777 contract so they are by no means inexperienced aviators. I don't know of anyone with 1000TT and a 777 endorsement getting hired. As for me I ended up at Cathay and am just finishing up my simulator phase on the A330. As for me Im sitting at just about 5000tt and cant get any bites anywhere... meaning oversea's (Asia). Have had my app in at Cathay for over a year... nothing. Think im gonna drink a beer by candle light and cry... whoa is me :rolleyes: |
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