The French!!
 

It's is amazing that even the French can do it. To bad we are not free to do what we need to in this country.

National Pilots' Strike from 14 to 17 November 2008
French airline pilots? unions have unanimously called a four-day strike from Friday 14 November at one minute past midnight to Monday 17 November at midnight, to protest against changes to the retirement age currently under discussion in the French Parliament (changing from 60 to 65).
Air France is expecting very severe disruptions to its operations. As things stand, the approximate estimation for Air France for Friday 14 November is the cancellation of half its long-haul flights from Paris and the same for medium-haul flights. More cancellations to long-haul flights are expected as the strike progresses.
Information will be updated as the situations evolves.

You can thank the RLA for that.

What do you mean by "Even the French can do it”?
Historically Sir, it took a very long time and a lot of commitment and sacrifice from mainly blue-collar workers to obtain the so-called "right to strike" (literal translation here). It is amazing to observe that this historically highly criticized right on this side of the pond has become something you would like to gain almost overnight. I have a dual-citizenship and I rarely react to uneducated comment like "Even the French can do it", but please do yourself a favor and browse the web, travel the world, read some books. You will hopefully soon realize that a lot of things can be done by "other” people all over the world.:rolleyes:

Great, another pain in the ass French unionized group having another industrial action. You wouldn't think that was so great if you had to spend a good deal of time operating over there.

.... just spent my first 30 years there but you know what, unionized groups are always a pain in the ass until your job is on the line, access to basic health care is about to go away and so on. That is exactly what is currently happening here a the moment to thousands. But yes, you are right on the money, let CEOs screw you and pledge the system for allowing citizens not to have a say when decisions that impact their lives are made unilaterally. As far as strike being potentially a pain for some, yes it is, until you become the one who needs his voice to be heard.
By the way, 65 year-old retirement for french pilots means:
1- Higher overall salary cost for the company
2- No pilot hiring for 5 years, at least (only one employer there for pilots)
3- Cost increase in unemployment assistance for at least 5 years
But yes, you are right, trying to avoid that kind of outcome through a strike while discussions have been casually denied by authorities is just a pain in the ass....

Yes, they "can do it" over there- but it doesn't seem to change their lot. Strikes in Europe seem to be more of a public temper tantrum. Pay and working conditions don't seem to improve very much - at least not enough to be reported over here. In this case I doubt the retirement age will be rolled back.

It would be interesting to see the government's reaction if the strike were open-ended, with a stated objective of certain improvements in benefits, as well as a roll back to age 60 retirement.

Again, my insight is limited by what gets reported by AP, Fox, CNN, etc. Somebody with more information is welcome to chime in.

You are probably right as far as the 60 retirement is concerned. The reason being supranational. European legislation for that matter dictates 65 and retirement at 60 would likely create operational headaches for some low-cost airlines having bases in France. Locally employed pilots could not operate flights departing a french base and flying to other European destination. Easyjet and Ryanair come to my mind.
Air France pilots group has historically benefited from good working conditions but, interestingly, they went on strike several times over the years for many reasons that ultimately happened to benefit pilots. A few examples come to my mind:
1-Rejection of a dual salary scale that the company tried to implement in the late 90s. The goal for AF was to lower the entry level salary as well as salary progression for newly hired pilots
2-Rejection of a dual salary scale between AF and the newly acquired domestic carrier Air Inter.
3- Several strikes to prevent an upcoming deterioration of duty time regs

You are absolutely right when by saying that pay and working conditions do not seem to improve very much as a result of a strike. More realistically it has very often prevented a situation from deteriorating even more

I have traveled and I do read books, but that’s not important. But I will suggest that you go and read some about American history. I would suggest "If Workers Took a Notion" You might read about The Great Strike of 1877 were rail workers went on strike because of a pay cut. This resulted in bloodshed between workers and hired thumpers. Or how about the Haymarket Square Riot. I could cite many different occasions in which American workers lost their lives to strike or fight for what they wanted. To say that we want it over night shows that you have no concept of "our" history. American factory workers and blue collar class fought and gained the right to strike. The point I am making is that after all the death, fighting, and legal actions that many people fought for we no longer have in these "Great" United States. Basically because of RLA.

The United States of America is supposed to be the country where people have the right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness. My statement about "even the French can do it" relates to this fact that we as Americans believe we are in the most great and free country in the world. Yet many other countries, including France, have rights that we do not. So sorry if I offended your French heritage.

French pay/benefits
 

Skull are you a AF pilot?? There is a real lack of knowledge (here in the US and on the APC BB) about your pay and benefits vs USA carriers. If you fly in France for AF or someone else, we'd all be curious about how well you guys do vs "us" ;)
Good luck with your work action, if it's helping to raise the bar (or keeping it from lowering).

Unbelievable, isnt it?

Correct. Striking doesnt always have to be to improve working conditions and benefits (although it can be), it can also be to keep them from deteriorating further. Two things workers for U.S airlines are unfortunently clueless about.


Good luck to all AF pilots. Nice to at least SEE that a pilot group is capable of taking action to better, or keep from deteriorating their careers/profession/QOL.

I have never seen the Air France pilot contract but I bet it's a whole lot cushier than any of ours in the states. This is mostly due to a labor friendly environment where workers can stand up to management when they feel they need to.
One of the things I'm hoping for under the new administration is a whole sale rewrite or outright elimination of the Rail Way Labor Act. It is flagrantly anti labor and have kept our hands tied for decades. Without it most of us would still have pensions, pay and work rules because management would KNOW that it would cost them more to take a strike than to leave the pensions intakt. Hey. It's my dream and I can dream it as much as I want!:D

take a look at [url=http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com] - it shows the payscales for most European airlines.

That's not a dream, my friend. That's a hallucination. :)

Politicians's logic:

Cheap pilots = cheap airfares

Cheap airfares = votes :D

Chaos can be blamed on the airlines themselves. Works for either party. :eek:

It'll happen in Europe, too. Give it time ...

Well the AF pilot strike has come to an end, and all pilots have returned to work. Does anybody know what the results were? Success, or not so much?

Kind of wondering that myself and if its like the last strike not much was accomplished or they would not have struck this time.:rolleyes: