Qantas/Air New Zealand
06-17-2009, 07:34 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: standing-by
Posts: 287
Qantas/Air New Zealand
With the airlines in the US not hiring/furloughing, and with the interest in working abroad - how come more folks don't ask about or gravitate towards Qantas and Air New Zealand? The pay is great, and they are hiring. And it's Australia/New Zealand! Is it taxes, or that you can't get a visa or whatever it is to work over there? I have a stable job with a regional (for now), so I'm not personally interested - just curious why folks don't mention those options much, if at all.
06-17-2009, 11:42 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Desert Poolie
Posts: 354
From someone who has been doing everything possible to get on with ANZ....True statement...you must be a citizen/permanent resident to work for Air New Zealand. From what I understand Qantas is even more stringent.
Not sure where you got you got your info but neither ANZ or Qantas is hiring at the moment. In fact ANZ is currently looking for folks to take early retirement, LWOP and down grading.
Also the pay at ANZ is okay but certainly not great. Remember the pay is in NZ Dollars which at the current exchange rate is about 45K US for a entry level job, i.e. SO on a 74 or triple 7. Also the cost of living is much higher in NZ. My wife is currently home visiting her family and has been amazed at how the costs have skyrocketed since her last trip home just over a year ago. The ecomomy is bad all over! Granted...It is New Zealand and that alone makes it worth some pain.
Koru should be along shortly to give the latest. In the meantime, here is a link for a thread concerning Air New Zealand. Check out the latest pages for the most current info..
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/fo...korupilot.html
Cheers,
JD
Not sure where you got you got your info but neither ANZ or Qantas is hiring at the moment. In fact ANZ is currently looking for folks to take early retirement, LWOP and down grading.
Also the pay at ANZ is okay but certainly not great. Remember the pay is in NZ Dollars which at the current exchange rate is about 45K US for a entry level job, i.e. SO on a 74 or triple 7. Also the cost of living is much higher in NZ. My wife is currently home visiting her family and has been amazed at how the costs have skyrocketed since her last trip home just over a year ago. The ecomomy is bad all over! Granted...It is New Zealand and that alone makes it worth some pain.
Koru should be along shortly to give the latest. In the meantime, here is a link for a thread concerning Air New Zealand. Check out the latest pages for the most current info..
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/fo...korupilot.html
Cheers,
JD
Last edited by Tweet46; 06-17-2009 at 11:54 AM.
06-18-2009, 04:31 AM
#4
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 93
Not necessarily always a visa is a main point
Not necessarily always one needs to be a permanent resident of a particular country.
It s really depends on many factors like what one really wants to say. I had been on a pilot training at our Eu base cause my brother is a Cpt, And I remember that was before a crisis, I asked the airlines to take one contractor, since we want to fly together. And they had agreed for it what is very unusual, of course they said that our Eu visas procedures take a long time but it is not impossible, then I started saying that I will help, and that was before a crisis, and they were waiting for half a year for a contractor. I dont know what had happened to a contractor.One needs to say straight in a polite way directly to the airlines other then in US, avoiding these contractors companies and etc… since it is not really flying through these companies, the main airlines are not that interested in them in Eu or New Zealand it is this way.
It s really depends on many factors like what one really wants to say. I had been on a pilot training at our Eu base cause my brother is a Cpt, And I remember that was before a crisis, I asked the airlines to take one contractor, since we want to fly together. And they had agreed for it what is very unusual, of course they said that our Eu visas procedures take a long time but it is not impossible, then I started saying that I will help, and that was before a crisis, and they were waiting for half a year for a contractor. I dont know what had happened to a contractor.One needs to say straight in a polite way directly to the airlines other then in US, avoiding these contractors companies and etc… since it is not really flying through these companies, the main airlines are not that interested in them in Eu or New Zealand it is this way.
06-18-2009, 06:07 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Professional Expat
Posts: 326
This gets asked every so often and while it may seem like a great idea, there are a few points that are often missed.
First, while Australia and NZ may occupy a land mass that's comparable to the US, there's only around 25 million people in total. The whole market has shown time and time again, that it can only really support 2 major carriers and a handful of regionals in Australia, while NZ can only support one major airline and associated regionals. Hence, there are only a limited number of pilots that will be required by the airlines. That's one of the reasons you'll find Aussies and Kiwis flying all over the rest of the world.
Secondly, it is not a cheap place to live. Taxes are high, far higher than the US and the cost of living has gone through the roof over the last 10 years.
Thirdly, while you don't need to be a citizen, you do need the right to live and work there. Just, I might add, the same as you need here. QF do though, have a requirement that you have been educated in Australia or at the very least have a High School and University education that is comparable to Australian qualifications.
Lastly, Qf is not one of the greatest jobs out there. A few years ago QF management took a leaf out of the Tilton playbook of "how to screw your employees" and formed Jetstar. It was supposed to be a low cost venture a la United and Ted. Only problem was, the QF guys were too arrogant or too stupid to realise it was a perfect recipe for a whipsaw. Guess what's happened? Jetstar is expanding and getting the majority if not all the new 787's on order, expanding into QF markets both domestically and internationally and QF is shrinking. A mate of mine at Jetstar mentioned a month ago, that QF was offering slots at Jetstar, to a bunch of the most junior guys at Qantas.
The grass isn't always greener on the other side, although the beer is better.
First, while Australia and NZ may occupy a land mass that's comparable to the US, there's only around 25 million people in total. The whole market has shown time and time again, that it can only really support 2 major carriers and a handful of regionals in Australia, while NZ can only support one major airline and associated regionals. Hence, there are only a limited number of pilots that will be required by the airlines. That's one of the reasons you'll find Aussies and Kiwis flying all over the rest of the world.
Secondly, it is not a cheap place to live. Taxes are high, far higher than the US and the cost of living has gone through the roof over the last 10 years.
Thirdly, while you don't need to be a citizen, you do need the right to live and work there. Just, I might add, the same as you need here. QF do though, have a requirement that you have been educated in Australia or at the very least have a High School and University education that is comparable to Australian qualifications.
Lastly, Qf is not one of the greatest jobs out there. A few years ago QF management took a leaf out of the Tilton playbook of "how to screw your employees" and formed Jetstar. It was supposed to be a low cost venture a la United and Ted. Only problem was, the QF guys were too arrogant or too stupid to realise it was a perfect recipe for a whipsaw. Guess what's happened? Jetstar is expanding and getting the majority if not all the new 787's on order, expanding into QF markets both domestically and internationally and QF is shrinking. A mate of mine at Jetstar mentioned a month ago, that QF was offering slots at Jetstar, to a bunch of the most junior guys at Qantas.
The grass isn't always greener on the other side, although the beer is better.
06-18-2009, 08:40 AM
#6
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 93
Kennys points are great re Australia
"Secondly, it is not a cheap place to live. Taxes are high, far higher than the US and the cost of living has gone through the roof over the last 10 years."
Hello Kenny,
I agree with your statement fully. However, if one within US is trying to get into job again, then for sure is not really paying an attention to the taxes at the other territories then that much isn’t it? The entire crisis is caused of the companies, these “ their cooperation” and etc…. The only thing they took care of really is “ a cash”, a blind could had seen it. I always had believed that if one wants to be a pilot, then must go through a direct airlines training at our Eu territory liking it or not for a short time for me it is great, but not really so deeply further....as I did waiting for a contractor. And nobody any further will tell me on earth that there is something impossible, if one wants to do something must always go ahead. Well, as for Australia, Australian like Americans, they are coping many things, however as for a Job out there, one just needs to talk directly with the airlines, and it is enough to say that due to a current situation or something, is searching further and what kind of the packages they are offering, if a situation is completely dark, means someone had been not flying due to the “ illusion” of the companies. Instead of waiting. One can suggest that there are many Aussies in US as well, so what is wrong for American to fly with Australian at their territories??? At Eu they like Americans all know that a crisis shall not end so soon, and the main responsibility relies on these thousands of the companies these hiring systems, offering whatever. However, while trying to help an American contractor a question remains Whether Americans were or are interested with Europeans? In US people always had bright minds, you were ahead in terms of technology. I do not know. That how it works at EU at our bases they know very well what had caused a problems, and they will always help. At external situation , One cannot place inner barrier like the taxes, like visas and etc….if has no choice. Since automatically, one causes himself additional stresses.They are the ones that must sponsor it to you, just a situation at current is not that interesting in US, .... but there are many people left, who think or shall start to think in more outgoing way and I think it is a highest time to move on your points are great, but everything in our lives is about taking a risk in many ways. Practically, US went bankrupt, so in order to get out of this situation, is to talk directly, don’t you think so and one say that had heard that it is hard, and they will tell you yes it is, but we shall have some more opportunities upcoming months and etc... Just to show more interest in others, like " getting out of " the inner garden. Since, what is said on a company internet, is not really the same as in reality. M
Hello Kenny,
I agree with your statement fully. However, if one within US is trying to get into job again, then for sure is not really paying an attention to the taxes at the other territories then that much isn’t it? The entire crisis is caused of the companies, these “ their cooperation” and etc…. The only thing they took care of really is “ a cash”, a blind could had seen it. I always had believed that if one wants to be a pilot, then must go through a direct airlines training at our Eu territory liking it or not for a short time for me it is great, but not really so deeply further....as I did waiting for a contractor. And nobody any further will tell me on earth that there is something impossible, if one wants to do something must always go ahead. Well, as for Australia, Australian like Americans, they are coping many things, however as for a Job out there, one just needs to talk directly with the airlines, and it is enough to say that due to a current situation or something, is searching further and what kind of the packages they are offering, if a situation is completely dark, means someone had been not flying due to the “ illusion” of the companies. Instead of waiting. One can suggest that there are many Aussies in US as well, so what is wrong for American to fly with Australian at their territories??? At Eu they like Americans all know that a crisis shall not end so soon, and the main responsibility relies on these thousands of the companies these hiring systems, offering whatever. However, while trying to help an American contractor a question remains Whether Americans were or are interested with Europeans? In US people always had bright minds, you were ahead in terms of technology. I do not know. That how it works at EU at our bases they know very well what had caused a problems, and they will always help. At external situation , One cannot place inner barrier like the taxes, like visas and etc….if has no choice. Since automatically, one causes himself additional stresses.They are the ones that must sponsor it to you, just a situation at current is not that interesting in US, .... but there are many people left, who think or shall start to think in more outgoing way and I think it is a highest time to move on your points are great, but everything in our lives is about taking a risk in many ways. Practically, US went bankrupt, so in order to get out of this situation, is to talk directly, don’t you think so and one say that had heard that it is hard, and they will tell you yes it is, but we shall have some more opportunities upcoming months and etc... Just to show more interest in others, like " getting out of " the inner garden. Since, what is said on a company internet, is not really the same as in reality. M
06-19-2009, 04:37 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Contract purgatory
Posts: 701
MeLu,
I like your shutspa, well done for trying out your English, but mate, get somebody to help you out here. It's like watching the knock off foreign (to me)movies I get down the road here in Shanghai; interesting English subtitles, but I inevitably end up lost as far as the story goes. Please don't take this the wrong way though, I think it's great that your trying out the language, but get a bit of help from a native English speaker and I think you'll not only get your point across, but your written English will improve. That said, you English is way better than my Mandarin, so well done.
SayAgain
As for making dreams a reality. You absolutely, positively require residence, not just a work permit, to get into Air NZ. However, currently Jetstar NZ is taking Europeans who are typed to fly the airplanes. It's a long story and a bit of a bone of contention, but basically the imports are getting more money than Jetstar is willing to pay Kiwi's/Aussies in order to keep the airplanes in the air while trying to get Kiwi's/Aussies to give in and work for less. Keep in mind that that's slanted a bit as it is my opinion and I'm sick of HR departments worldwide using the 'crisis' to screw down wages. But I digress.
As already pointed out by my bank robbing gun slinging friend, Air NZ is not hiring, nor does it look like they will be hiring for the foreseeable future. They are trying to get people to take LWOP as they have an apparent overstaffing situation while they run 75 hour roster averages. I've always liked Air NZ and have only good thing's to say about working for the company and the pilot management, but, they are heading down an interesting path here and the ends are a bit fuzzy from a pilots perspective.
Again, it's a great lifestyle job and the pay, in NZ terms, is not too bad. There is however almost no movement now, so if you go you can expect to be in the cruise seat (or B733 FO seat, same position as far as the company is concerned) for a very long time. It was too long for me so I left (I asked for LWOP, argued the point rather eloquently I think, and was flat out denied. Six months later they can't get rid of pilots fast enough. Go figure). Others however think I'm an idiot though, so there you go. What I'm doing now is simply more my thing, plus I commute anyway so what the heck eh. The S/O position was not my thing. Simple as that.
But that's not really what you asked was it. Sorry 'bout that, I do tend to ramble.
Pacific Blue is starting a whole bunch more flying trans-Tasman, and Jetstar is looking to come into NZ in a big way. As far as I know neither of them require anything more than a work permit, and if you are type rated with good experience you might just be able to squeeze a sponsor before the door closes on that one. Both companies have down sides compared to Air NZ, but the upside would be an upgrade at least a decade faster.
(I should note that when I was hired at Air NZ there was a fellow upgraded to the B733 in less than five years, but also guy's at that time who had waited as S/O's for close to ten. In my opinion, and my opinion only, those day's are over for a while. Management is talking not only short term, but also long term overstaffing numbers. Since they are saying that publicly I can only assume that whatever expansion plans they had have been cancelled. If they are not cancelled then they are blowing smoke to get something out of the pilots, which will come around to bite them very squarely on the rear. But again I digress).
Once again more than you requested. Sorry for the opinions. You can go ahead and blame Tweet, who should bloody well stop in AKL for a beer next time he's in country. Have a great weekend everybody.
I like your shutspa, well done for trying out your English, but mate, get somebody to help you out here. It's like watching the knock off foreign (to me)movies I get down the road here in Shanghai; interesting English subtitles, but I inevitably end up lost as far as the story goes. Please don't take this the wrong way though, I think it's great that your trying out the language, but get a bit of help from a native English speaker and I think you'll not only get your point across, but your written English will improve. That said, you English is way better than my Mandarin, so well done.
SayAgain
As for making dreams a reality. You absolutely, positively require residence, not just a work permit, to get into Air NZ. However, currently Jetstar NZ is taking Europeans who are typed to fly the airplanes. It's a long story and a bit of a bone of contention, but basically the imports are getting more money than Jetstar is willing to pay Kiwi's/Aussies in order to keep the airplanes in the air while trying to get Kiwi's/Aussies to give in and work for less. Keep in mind that that's slanted a bit as it is my opinion and I'm sick of HR departments worldwide using the 'crisis' to screw down wages. But I digress.
As already pointed out by my bank robbing gun slinging friend, Air NZ is not hiring, nor does it look like they will be hiring for the foreseeable future. They are trying to get people to take LWOP as they have an apparent overstaffing situation while they run 75 hour roster averages. I've always liked Air NZ and have only good thing's to say about working for the company and the pilot management, but, they are heading down an interesting path here and the ends are a bit fuzzy from a pilots perspective.
Again, it's a great lifestyle job and the pay, in NZ terms, is not too bad. There is however almost no movement now, so if you go you can expect to be in the cruise seat (or B733 FO seat, same position as far as the company is concerned) for a very long time. It was too long for me so I left (I asked for LWOP, argued the point rather eloquently I think, and was flat out denied. Six months later they can't get rid of pilots fast enough. Go figure). Others however think I'm an idiot though, so there you go. What I'm doing now is simply more my thing, plus I commute anyway so what the heck eh. The S/O position was not my thing. Simple as that.
But that's not really what you asked was it. Sorry 'bout that, I do tend to ramble.
Pacific Blue is starting a whole bunch more flying trans-Tasman, and Jetstar is looking to come into NZ in a big way. As far as I know neither of them require anything more than a work permit, and if you are type rated with good experience you might just be able to squeeze a sponsor before the door closes on that one. Both companies have down sides compared to Air NZ, but the upside would be an upgrade at least a decade faster.
(I should note that when I was hired at Air NZ there was a fellow upgraded to the B733 in less than five years, but also guy's at that time who had waited as S/O's for close to ten. In my opinion, and my opinion only, those day's are over for a while. Management is talking not only short term, but also long term overstaffing numbers. Since they are saying that publicly I can only assume that whatever expansion plans they had have been cancelled. If they are not cancelled then they are blowing smoke to get something out of the pilots, which will come around to bite them very squarely on the rear. But again I digress).
Once again more than you requested. Sorry for the opinions. You can go ahead and blame Tweet, who should bloody well stop in AKL for a beer next time he's in country. Have a great weekend everybody.
06-19-2009, 09:31 AM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Desert Poolie
Posts: 354
Koru,
Ramble away...I, and I'm sure the others, appreciate your insight. Gunslinging, bankrobber??? You've been watching too many movies...BTW he was only my great uncle.
As far as the beer in AKL...I tried to hook up with you the last time I was there but you were off galavanting around the world. Not sure when the next time I will be down under...at least a year from now as I am off to Iraq for a year in July to make the big bucks.
Back to the topic at hand...I sure don't want to be labled for trying for PacBlue or Jetstar...so I'm holding out for ANZ. Lets just hope the economy turns around and the old buggers call it quits!!
Cheers,
Tweet
Ramble away...I, and I'm sure the others, appreciate your insight. Gunslinging, bankrobber??? You've been watching too many movies...BTW he was only my great uncle.
As far as the beer in AKL...I tried to hook up with you the last time I was there but you were off galavanting around the world. Not sure when the next time I will be down under...at least a year from now as I am off to Iraq for a year in July to make the big bucks. Back to the topic at hand...I sure don't want to be labled for trying for PacBlue or Jetstar...so I'm holding out for ANZ. Lets just hope the economy turns around and the old buggers call it quits!!
Cheers,
Tweet
Last edited by Tweet46; 06-20-2009 at 01:55 AM.
07-13-2009, 03:29 AM
#10
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 93
Koru,
I liked your statements, I think in Swedish language.
You did not get the point well, what I had tried to say, I said, that at current in order to get out of a situation, one is calling the airlines, and is moving ahead, the same as my neighbor once said from US embassy, a former pilot of a former, Pan Am American, that the worst of all what can happen is sitting or sending the CV to these agencies hiring the people. And he said he agrees since unfortunately Americans, were only interested with themselves and while in the entire high school he said he had never ever heard of other countries history, and this summer I will fly at my plane and shall invite him to a cockpit with my brother a Capt, since he is very needed. Who cares about the visas? Once hired then one needs to go to the immigration office.And he can further on teach English at the base and Aviation in the nearest future. And probably will join the group. There is nothing impossible, a best way is to ask the closest friends for a job at the airlines. At current, oh no we are not planning to send ourselves to China, I can imagine, what is like there , without understanding of a chinese language. Cheers MeLu
I liked your statements, I think in Swedish language.
You did not get the point well, what I had tried to say, I said, that at current in order to get out of a situation, one is calling the airlines, and is moving ahead, the same as my neighbor once said from US embassy, a former pilot of a former, Pan Am American, that the worst of all what can happen is sitting or sending the CV to these agencies hiring the people. And he said he agrees since unfortunately Americans, were only interested with themselves and while in the entire high school he said he had never ever heard of other countries history, and this summer I will fly at my plane and shall invite him to a cockpit with my brother a Capt, since he is very needed. Who cares about the visas? Once hired then one needs to go to the immigration office.And he can further on teach English at the base and Aviation in the nearest future. And probably will join the group. There is nothing impossible, a best way is to ask the closest friends for a job at the airlines. At current, oh no we are not planning to send ourselves to China, I can imagine, what is like there , without understanding of a chinese language. Cheers MeLu
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