atpcliff

Hi!

I recently read a poster say that in 2008, Australia awarded 20 new ATPs...in the WHOLE year! Flying is vital to Australia, so the gov't decided to do something about it:

Why Don't More Young Eagles Become Pilots? | Flying Magazine | The World?s Most Widely Read Aviation Magazine

cliff
LFW

Inconceivable

A dozen years ago, AUS had more commercial pilots per capita than anywhere else...and jobs were incredibly difficult to find.

This may be the United States in ten years.

DashDriverYV

[delete politics]

The US in ten years indeed.

If the Govt funds pilot training, the existing pilots will once again be undercut by newcomers, instead of long earned bargaining capital

The Dominican

These pilots today constitute a large portion of the expats flying all over the world, with the increase in international fleets and the repatriation of a significant portion of Aussies, things will get pretty interesting in the next few years in the international arena

Kenny

I've just moved back to Oz after flying in the US for over 10 years and from what I've seen there isn't a pilot shortage. We have guys lining up down the street to interview and in fact, because the supply outweighs the demand, we've knocked back some very experienced individuals.

The thing you have to remember about Oz is that it can only support a finite amount of commercial operators. It may be the same size as the US but there are only 22 million people here, so it will only ever need 2 major domestic carriers and a couple more LCC's.

Also, there are so many Australians flying overseas that you'd probably have to drain that supply first, before any real pilot shortage became evident.

KoruPilot

From what I understand Kenny you should have been DEC.

I've spoken to the crew control manager from Jetstar and a senior training captain at your outfit and both tell me that they are down to applicants with turbo-prop time. Yes, there are lot's of guy's like yourself spread out all over the place, my room mate being one of them, but very few are willing to go back to Oz for the T&C that are being offered, namely by the likes of Jetstar and Tiger. Virgin group is not so bad; as for my feeling's on the cruise FO position at V, the pay fit's the candidates.

The first five pages of the seniority list at Air NZ are over 60, and I imagine QF is much the same. AA back in the States has more pilots over 60 then under 40. Asking a reasonable economist would get you a very scary answer as to how/if all these planes will be flown in the future.

I do wish the governments/industry would quit with this crap though. We've always been a commodity in a cyclical industry. As a commodity you'd think, at times, our wages would move like the price of gold. This constant meddling of late, with the support of organized labour (some have even supported the MCL) has killed our chances to gain when times have been good. The Air NZ (now this is really my own opinion) ALPA representation has been woefull in the past three to four years. Unfortunately as much as Unions have helped us with this at times, in the past two decades, in my opinion only, they have done more harm than good. My proof is my right seat on a B744 in a communist country with some of the best T&C's on the planet, negotiated by me. What's up with that?

The pilot shortage in Asia has risen wages steadily over the last six months. Even Air Asia pays pretty well. . . better than a starter at J* NZ by a bit, and you don't have to pay for the "privelage" of being interviewed.

TonyWilliams

Just like in the US.... any "shortage" will be of qualified, experienced applicants who will work for the pitiful entry level wage.

There will always be keen competition for any worthwhile job that pays well.

Kenny

Koru,

I think Jet* hire DEC's if you have Airbus time but not VB, although to be completely honest and I mean this sincerely, I wouldn't want to be a DEC for a domestic Australian airline. Certainly not without having flown here before; there are simply too many ways to f*ck up and end up having a stale biscuits and burnt coffee chat.

The nuances of flying in Australia, compared to the US, are many and it's been a surprising culture shock. Very much a big "C" and little "T" culture. While I've been reminded every day I've gone flying, up to this point, that I still have a lot to learn, I felt coming here after having been an RJ captain, flying on the East Coast of the US for 3 years, would give me a solid start. They have there own way of doing things here and sometimes it seems a bit like trying to reinvent the wheel. However, it's their train set and every month so far, I get 2 paychecks. So I do what I'm told and fly the plane the way they want it to be flown.

I agree with your sentiment on the V Snooze FO's. You get what you pay for. It's going to be interesting though; a few are now coming to VB as 73 and Jungle Jet FO's.

We are our own worst enemies unfortunately but there are certainly going to be some "interesting" times ahead in the aviation game, if you're a pilot.

Not sure if you're ever in SYD but I'd be more than happy to grab a beer some time.

KoruPilot

SYD's in my future I suppose. Definately I see beer in my future. Hafta put the two together.

As for "their train set", yea, that's an understatement. The departure off of 34R is a nightmare, and the controllers apparently have a great desire to hand clearances to pilots with the direct result being a violation. If you don't change the acceleration altitude off of 27 in MEL you'll never make the climb restriction and get a noise violation. Mind you, Manchester isn't much better.

It reminds me of the story of the retiring United skipper leaving Aussie airspace for the last time and making the comment to them that they were "the second best controllers on the planet". They thanked him and asked who was better, to which he replied "everybody else". I always get a giggle out of that one.

Happy flying.

Kenny

A wise man once said...."Australia, the galapagos of aviation"

'nuff said.