KoruPilot

I've been speaking to a number of pilots and friends who are looking into Chinese contracts as of late and it is interesting to hear what some of them have been told is on offer.

There is a new offer for Air China Cargo regarding commands on the B744, accepting all Boeing glass experience, wide and narrow body. This is the part where you do your homework and take a very close look at the contract (not the "contract" that you will be presented with first, as an opener, but the one you will sign and be the legal document).

I have spoken to a few of my expat compadres here in China as there are a number with contracts due at my current employer who have been offered the Sun to get them to change airlines. Here's the thing, what is being offered as a command may not exactly be a command, it may be a relief position where you have four stripes but mainly do the radio work (level six will be compulsory pretty quick as I understand it). The money they are showing is at times not the money you will be offered in the actual contract. It may be, but it may not be, so be careful; very, very careful.

Narrow body to narrow body I do not know. It may be exactly what it says. I only know wide body and in China it is a totally different thing.

The local airlines are pretty desperate to fill seats for the next 12 to 24 months. A number of contracts with pilots will be coming due in very short order. The Middle East and parts of Europe are looking for very large numbers of pilots in the short term. TP can chime in here, but I have not seen what is coming down the pipe now happen before, even four years ago. The companies know it and are desperate, the problem is they have to stick to what the CAAC gives them as far as crewing qualifications, and that is one massive grey area. Half the time the CAAC doesn't even know for sure. Seriously, getting a straight answer from your company or the CAAC is not an easy task and will vary. There was apparently a law change recently restricting over 250 ton (yes, I know, that's a big bloody airplane)D/E captains to have previous over 250 ton command. Now I hear that has not been passed. . . maybe.

So, this new contract telling guy's that they will have a command on a B744 out of a narrow body; well, I'm very skeptical. Four bars you may get, but the advertised "Captain" pay and an actual left seat is something that I, in my personal yet educated opinion, think is a line they are feeding people to get them to sign on.

I've spoken recently wit a company looking for B737 pilots to fill a Chinese contract, trying to help them along as they are new to contracting in Asia, and they even had a number of issues that they were not aware of/mistaken by.

Look, I love my flying here and I have a good contract in China. I have very few issues with my company but one big one is that commands were promised and never materialized. I have lot's of wide body jet but no command, and lot's of command but not on a wide body. I will not be looking at a command at any time in the reasonable future and I know it. I happen to like my job regardless, but again, if it's a command you are coming here for and you are not currently a commander on the big bird. . . just be careful.

And a few points to sum up:

You may be initially offered something that will not be completely true.

You may be shown pay rates but that will be for down the road a few years, maybe.

Regardless of what I have read by another person on this site there are only a couple of companies that do not have punitive FOQA systems, expat or not.

The people are great, China is a nice place to live, the flying is fun, the maintenance is generally pretty good and they pay you the second they said they would. Shanghai is a great city to live in; if you like family stuff great, if you like night life it's tough to beat.

Just do your homework as you would anywhere else.

Typhoonpilot

Great post Koru ( need a thumbs up smilie )



TP

KoruPilot

Kudos mate.

Beers at some point, somewhere, are in order eh.

vagabond

Thank you Koru for another great and timely post. I really appreciate you and TP looking out for us, and sharing your knwledge and experience.

Whenever you both find yourselves in SEA, the lattes and doppios are on the house!

Thread stickied.

cactusmike

Thanks, Koru...This seemed too good to be true.

On another note, I was looking at the PPrune threaqd on the Chinese ATP written. It looks like a very interesting undertaking. My F/O was downgraded this past year and displaced from the 737 here in Cactusland. He interviewed at a Chinese airline for a 737 Captain slot and was hired after a few months of delay but was unable to take the contract because of timing and a cessation of LOAs here. He said the process was very confusing and somewhat haphazard. He did say that somewhere in China is his Chinese ATP and 1st class medical. Don't count on getting things done in a timely manner in China, I guess.

KoruPilot

Yup, a quick look at the minimum requirements will tell the story. There is very little chance that they would hire a person with 2000 total and 500 command on a narrow body glass Boeing. To good to be true, as you put it, would be quite an apt way to describe it.

The process is a long one for sure. I have one mate from Delta coming to us off of the B744, straight command of course. His wife is Taiwanese, so it all makes sense for him. Plus, we do have a good operation at Great Wall and the pay is pretty well. Also our leave and home leave are much better than what Air China Cargo is offering. However, with the merger with CargoKing (MU Cargo) I don't know. Could be good, likely not better, but one never knows.

But I digress.

It normally takes at least three to four months for the process to work itself through. The medical and ATP written are not a problem, they just take time. The nice part is that along the way everybody was very helpful and friendly when I joined.

Confusing. . . most definitely. But, they are slowly working through the mountains of red tape that you find here. They may all drive Lamborghinis, but it is still a communist country and you have to deal with the beaurocracy that surounds it.

This CargoKing chap who posted on another thread is, I assume from his handle, with MU cargo; perhaps directly involved with hiring (one never knows with the anonymity of this site). It sounds like he's open to questions and I would suggest sending him a PM if one was interested in that outfit. We are rolling into their operation but we are still hiring FO's where as, from what I understand, they do not. Where that leaves me when the dust settles I do not know.

B757200ER

Excellent info, thanks. I have two mates trying to get on with ACC and Jade Cargo. Koru & Typhoon have been most helpful.

worldliner777

Great information!

I agreed, KoruPilot and Typhoonpilot always provide detail and upfront information on contract flying.

Cheers

CARGOKING

TO:KoruPilot
We are merging with GreatWall and shanghai airline cargo now. However we think maybe in the long future, the 3 company will still keep their currrent ways of operation, especially in fleet operation. For Great Wall and SHANGHAI AIRLINE CARGO have a lot of foreing, but we China Carog only has few. For we just introduced brand new B777, this is first time we hiring B777 captains.
to this website, i am a green hand, i really don't know the rules and regulations here. and i find here just by google. and i even don't know how to use PM function here. But i go here just want to find qualified candidates by our company, for we don't want to hire from agent this time.
[deleted]

KoruPilot

Well, not wanting to hire through an agent is a good thing. Best of luck with your search for pilots.