EMIRATE FO's & $$
01-08-2018, 10:07 AM
#71
Chasing A Dream
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Position: LR-45
Posts: 87
Originally Posted by SEPfield
Well myself and many other EK FOs have left to return to US regionals so read into that what you will...
So you left flying the Triple 7 to come back to the regionals? Do tell me more.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
01-08-2018, 10:10 AM
#72
Chasing A Dream
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Position: LR-45
Posts: 87
Originally Posted by SEPfield
I have friends there that went to upgrade training at close to 6 years. Upgrade is not necessarily seniority based and requires you to pass an in depth interview in order to be allowed to upgrade. That’s if you meet the arbitrary age requirements. 33 for 777 captain or 35 for 380 captain.
Also upgrade now incurs a 4 year $40,000 bond.
I recommend reading up on EK over on Pprune and asking yourself why they need a bond to retain a 777 or 380 captain.
Also upgrade now incurs a 4 year $40,000 bond.
I recommend reading up on EK over on Pprune and asking yourself why they need a bond to retain a 777 or 380 captain.
Can you send the link to Pprune?
I have the Compass Testing and Dubai Assessment stage coming up in a few weeks. Is there a study gouge?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
01-08-2018, 06:52 PM
#74
Chasing A Dream
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Position: LR-45
Posts: 87
Originally Posted by 123494
I also know an ex-Emirates guy flying for a regional. I'm certain he has his apps out at the legacies, but hasn't gotten a call.
Did he say why he left Emirates? Wouldn’t it be wiser to stay at Emirates until a major called?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
01-08-2018, 07:58 PM
#75
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: Gear slinger
Posts: 2,897
Originally Posted by Boss Hoggin
Did he say why he left Emirates? Wouldn’t it be wiser to stay at Emirates until a major called?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
EK line pilots from the US were advising folks to go to US regionals three years ago citing working conditions and the benefit of union protection... it doesn’t sound thinks have improved at all since then.
01-09-2018, 04:42 AM
#76
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 747 captain
Posts: 1,549
I'm not going to credit nor discredit anything that has been said about this particular gig since I don't work there...., my comment is geared towards the general reasoning that many people that I have spoken with that have made such a drastic move as going to a regional.
If you speak to this individuals you get a sense that their reasoning has more to do with outside influences than the condition of the job itself, the people that are leaving to take this drastic step is 90% of the time because of an "ultimatum" circumstance with their significant other. Life in Dubai gets old really quick, after you have gone to the malls and western style restaurants 100 times what's left is desert and you as a pilot have different environments that you see everyday that keeps it interesting, but the wives do not, If you talk to these folks, you get a sense that they were pushed to make this choice by "Family issues" and not so much the job as many people would like to make it sound.
Another recommendation in general and not only for Ek, On your days off don't hang around with pilots and don't bring work issues home. You don't know how many times you hear a story where the person telling you the story is not the protagonist but rather it is s a third hand story and not something that actually happened to them, ALL these stories are adorn by the person that is telling the story and they take a life of their own that after some time doesn't even resemble the original story, pilots tend to get influenced by the experiences of others and most of the time the cruise "stories" are the perspective of others and not of their own.
People tend to get influenced by the negativity of others, I have friends that hate Delta, FedEx, UPS etc...., Inevitably the same applies to the same 8 PPrune names talking about brand X all the time.
If you speak to this individuals you get a sense that their reasoning has more to do with outside influences than the condition of the job itself, the people that are leaving to take this drastic step is 90% of the time because of an "ultimatum" circumstance with their significant other. Life in Dubai gets old really quick, after you have gone to the malls and western style restaurants 100 times what's left is desert and you as a pilot have different environments that you see everyday that keeps it interesting, but the wives do not, If you talk to these folks, you get a sense that they were pushed to make this choice by "Family issues" and not so much the job as many people would like to make it sound.
Another recommendation in general and not only for Ek, On your days off don't hang around with pilots and don't bring work issues home. You don't know how many times you hear a story where the person telling you the story is not the protagonist but rather it is s a third hand story and not something that actually happened to them, ALL these stories are adorn by the person that is telling the story and they take a life of their own that after some time doesn't even resemble the original story, pilots tend to get influenced by the experiences of others and most of the time the cruise "stories" are the perspective of others and not of their own.
People tend to get influenced by the negativity of others, I have friends that hate Delta, FedEx, UPS etc...., Inevitably the same applies to the same 8 PPrune names talking about brand X all the time.
01-09-2018, 02:23 PM
#77
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 171
https://www.pprune.org/middle-east/6...ek207-jfk.html
This is a good starting point for learning about the realities of EK. Very similar operations/procedures/conditions at EY and QR. I highly recommend the longform rant sometimes dubbed a book "Flying Upside Down" (pay for one month of Scribd to read it) to get a feel for what the Chinese expat contracts are like.
If you have never worked overseas (traveling is NOT the same), working for a foreign company in a foreign country is a culture shock that you are not prepared for. Some people manage to adapt to it, some do not. It is a major gamble to take with the current hiring market in the US, which is only forecast to get better for pilots here.
That being said, the time I spent working in Africa and Central/South America is still something I consider invaluable. It completely changed my perspective on the world, and I wouldn't trade it for anything. However, I did it working for an American company.
Do your research before going the expat route. Consider what it will look like on your resume if/when you decide to come back home. And check your ego at the door when you walk into training if you get that far. The rest of the world is, generally speaking, not impressed with the fact that you are a pilot from the US (even though we actually are better at this aviation thing than everyone else...TRUCKER COM FO LYFE).
This is a good starting point for learning about the realities of EK. Very similar operations/procedures/conditions at EY and QR. I highly recommend the longform rant sometimes dubbed a book "Flying Upside Down" (pay for one month of Scribd to read it) to get a feel for what the Chinese expat contracts are like.
If you have never worked overseas (traveling is NOT the same), working for a foreign company in a foreign country is a culture shock that you are not prepared for. Some people manage to adapt to it, some do not. It is a major gamble to take with the current hiring market in the US, which is only forecast to get better for pilots here.
That being said, the time I spent working in Africa and Central/South America is still something I consider invaluable. It completely changed my perspective on the world, and I wouldn't trade it for anything. However, I did it working for an American company.
Do your research before going the expat route. Consider what it will look like on your resume if/when you decide to come back home. And check your ego at the door when you walk into training if you get that far. The rest of the world is, generally speaking, not impressed with the fact that you are a pilot from the US (even though we actually are better at this aviation thing than everyone else...TRUCKER COM FO LYFE).
01-09-2018, 03:18 PM
#78
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Posts: 417
There are a lot of different reasons pilots leave EK. For some it is an ultimatum type decision, but for most it is the combination of fatigue, lack of union protection, and declining compensation. For me personally it was the fatigue.
The schedules at EK are extremely fatiguing. It gets to the point where you are so fatigued that you don’t even realize you are fatigued Walking around in a dull haze becomes the new normal. When I tell other regional pilots about flying 95hrs a month with 8-9 days off, they don’t think it sounds that bad, and for them it’s not. 95hrs of regional flying is certainly difficult, but when most of that is done between the hours of 5am and 11pm and a max of 3-4 times zones it isn’t that terrible. Emirates flying is the opposite, the majority of the flying there is between 4pm and 8am and the shortest (non turn around flight) is 8+ hours and 4 time zones. You get 24hrs at the overnight, but what that means is now you are going to work at the same time you got off of work the day before, a complete circadian 180, and you are doing that 5 or more times per month, every month. Emirates is not like Delta or United 777 flying where you do 2-3 Londons or Rios or Shanghais in a month and your done. The use their 777s for everything from a 45 minute Doha turn around to a 16.5hr Houston, so it is very easy for them to build you a schedule to the maximum amount of duty. Your bid is essentially a wish list with no real regard given to your seniority or preferences.
There is no such thing as minimum days off at Emirates. Even the scummiest regional has 11 days off. EK only has to follow the GCAA guidance and provide 1 day off every 7 days and 2 off in a row every 14 days, which generally comes out to be 8-10 days off in a month.
Emirates also abuses the leave system. You are supposed to get 42 days of leave each year. Many of the captains have been lucky to get 30. You bid for your leave annually in 2 blocks and then can try to bid for other leave throughout the year, however if you haven't used enough of your leave then the schedulers will assign you a 4 day block of leave. Leave however doesn’t carry any credit weight for scheduling so you will still be flying 90 hrs and only have 10 days off. (4 days of leave and 6 days off)
There is also no credit for recurrent training, so expect 85+ hours in a month with recurrent. (and probably a 3am sim slot)
This really is just the tip of the Iceberg.
Actual report time is different than “official” report times.
Illegal 3 crew Dubai to Boston flight
Rest time on augmented flights doesn’t count towards flight time limits.
Augmenting crew members initially fired following GPWS incident in JFK
No raises in 3 years to keep up with rampant inflation in Dubai and now 5% sales tax
Pilot monitoring duties can be failing on a check ride
Age restrictions on upgrade, 32 for 777 35 for 380
5yr $42,000 bond when you join
4yr $40,000 bond to upgrade
There is no recourse if you disagree or dislike any company policy.
Emirates motto is “If you Don’t Like it, Leave”
The schedules at EK are extremely fatiguing. It gets to the point where you are so fatigued that you don’t even realize you are fatigued Walking around in a dull haze becomes the new normal. When I tell other regional pilots about flying 95hrs a month with 8-9 days off, they don’t think it sounds that bad, and for them it’s not. 95hrs of regional flying is certainly difficult, but when most of that is done between the hours of 5am and 11pm and a max of 3-4 times zones it isn’t that terrible. Emirates flying is the opposite, the majority of the flying there is between 4pm and 8am and the shortest (non turn around flight) is 8+ hours and 4 time zones. You get 24hrs at the overnight, but what that means is now you are going to work at the same time you got off of work the day before, a complete circadian 180, and you are doing that 5 or more times per month, every month. Emirates is not like Delta or United 777 flying where you do 2-3 Londons or Rios or Shanghais in a month and your done. The use their 777s for everything from a 45 minute Doha turn around to a 16.5hr Houston, so it is very easy for them to build you a schedule to the maximum amount of duty. Your bid is essentially a wish list with no real regard given to your seniority or preferences.
There is no such thing as minimum days off at Emirates. Even the scummiest regional has 11 days off. EK only has to follow the GCAA guidance and provide 1 day off every 7 days and 2 off in a row every 14 days, which generally comes out to be 8-10 days off in a month.
Emirates also abuses the leave system. You are supposed to get 42 days of leave each year. Many of the captains have been lucky to get 30. You bid for your leave annually in 2 blocks and then can try to bid for other leave throughout the year, however if you haven't used enough of your leave then the schedulers will assign you a 4 day block of leave. Leave however doesn’t carry any credit weight for scheduling so you will still be flying 90 hrs and only have 10 days off. (4 days of leave and 6 days off)
There is also no credit for recurrent training, so expect 85+ hours in a month with recurrent. (and probably a 3am sim slot)
This really is just the tip of the Iceberg.
Actual report time is different than “official” report times.
Illegal 3 crew Dubai to Boston flight
Rest time on augmented flights doesn’t count towards flight time limits.
Augmenting crew members initially fired following GPWS incident in JFK
No raises in 3 years to keep up with rampant inflation in Dubai and now 5% sales tax
Pilot monitoring duties can be failing on a check ride
Age restrictions on upgrade, 32 for 777 35 for 380
5yr $42,000 bond when you join
4yr $40,000 bond to upgrade
There is no recourse if you disagree or dislike any company policy.
Emirates motto is “If you Don’t Like it, Leave”
01-09-2018, 04:18 PM
#79
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Posts: 417
Here are 2 of my Ek schedules. I converted all the times to local Dubai time so you can get an idea of the circadian swaps. The time zone changes range from 4hrs east to 4hrs west so an 8 hour spread. This isn't me bidding max credit or anything like that, there is no such thing at EK, they just build you a schedule, sometimes you will get a destination you request.
This is the type of schedule you can expect every single month
Date Depart Arrive Block
29 1510 2255 0745
30
01 0035 0755 0720
02 Rest Day
03 0320 0925 0605
04 1255 1845 0550
05 Off
06 Turn 1345 1745 0400
1915 2305 0350
07 Off
08 Off
09 0740 1540 0800
10 1730 0045 0715
11
12 Rest
13 0320 0925 0605
14 1255 1845 0550
15 Off
16 Off
17 Off
18 0700 Recurrent
19 1815 Sim
20 1815 Sim
21 Off
22 1750 2155 0505
23
24 0005 0605 0500
25 Off
26 1600 2350 0750
27
28 0120 0850 0730
29 Off
30 Off
31 0900 1535 0635
10 Off days recurrent and still block 78:55
01 1700 2350 0550
Another Month
01 Off
02 Off
03 1455 2325 0830
04
05 0100 0855 0755
06 Off
07 1440 2330 0850
08 Long layover
09
10 0130 1020 0850
11 Off
12 Off
13 Turn 2150 0050 0300
14 0230 0540 0310
15 0730 1535 0805
16 Turn 1650 1750 0100
1920 2025 0105
17 2150 0550 0800
18
19 Off
20 1420 2310 0850
21 Long Layover
22
23 0130 1020 0850
24 Off
25 Off
26 1955 0445 0850
27 Long Layover
28
29 0130 0815 0645
1035 1335 0320
30 Off
31 No Planned assignment. Means you can be given a 0005 report the 1st
9 Days off Block 95:00
This is the type of schedule you can expect every single month
Date Depart Arrive Block
29 1510 2255 0745
30
01 0035 0755 0720
02 Rest Day
03 0320 0925 0605
04 1255 1845 0550
05 Off
06 Turn 1345 1745 0400
1915 2305 0350
07 Off
08 Off
09 0740 1540 0800
10 1730 0045 0715
11
12 Rest
13 0320 0925 0605
14 1255 1845 0550
15 Off
16 Off
17 Off
18 0700 Recurrent
19 1815 Sim
20 1815 Sim
21 Off
22 1750 2155 0505
23
24 0005 0605 0500
25 Off
26 1600 2350 0750
27
28 0120 0850 0730
29 Off
30 Off
31 0900 1535 0635
10 Off days recurrent and still block 78:55
01 1700 2350 0550
Another Month
01 Off
02 Off
03 1455 2325 0830
04
05 0100 0855 0755
06 Off
07 1440 2330 0850
08 Long layover
09
10 0130 1020 0850
11 Off
12 Off
13 Turn 2150 0050 0300
14 0230 0540 0310
15 0730 1535 0805
16 Turn 1650 1750 0100
1920 2025 0105
17 2150 0550 0800
18
19 Off
20 1420 2310 0850
21 Long Layover
22
23 0130 1020 0850
24 Off
25 Off
26 1955 0445 0850
27 Long Layover
28
29 0130 0815 0645
1035 1335 0320
30 Off
31 No Planned assignment. Means you can be given a 0005 report the 1st
9 Days off Block 95:00
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
