Flying Large Equipment in the Third World
 

I was wondering if there are any opportunities for extremely low-time American pilots - such as one who has just completed his commercial - to fly large equipment in the third world.

I read something once about Kingfisher hiring Airbus FOs with 250 hours of time. Is this accurate?

If you're a US national with an FAA issued certificate, the short answer is: no.

Read a little over at PPrune for more detail.

I get it - you want the great airline job, paying big bucks - and you want it now or maybe yesterday. Unfortunately, you need some some real experience before that's going to happen and there's really not a shortcut.


Somehow you've gotten to this point in your budding career (commercial license, I guess) with little to no respect for experience. You're coming across as a young pilot who thinks a few hundred hours and a check ride has somehow qualified you to fly "large equipment" across the globe.


An Airbus F/O with 250 hours is a joke. That airplane is basically single pilot. Those F/Os won't develop into much with such a weak foundation of skills to build on.


Do yourself a favor and find a flying job more suitable to your current skill level, put some time in and stop looking for short-cuts.

Adler:


While I don't disagree with a lot of what you say, it comes across as quite harsh. There are actually a number of airlines in the western world that have 250 hours pilots in the right seat of A320 and B737s. Ryanair, Easyjet, and BMI Baby to name a few. Pilots from those airlines are now finding their way to Emirates with 2700 hours total time and, on average, do very well in training on the B777 and A330 as new hires. They are actually some of the better pilots we are hiring right now.

Where they that way at 250 hours? Probably not, but they did seem to make it through okay and are better than many pilots who did the traditional U.S. route and end up at EK with 6000 hours.

Kingfisher isn't going to hire a non-Indian with 250 hours. Lots of Indian CPL holders still looking for work. So I'd forget that route. Ryanair might be a possibility. Although you may need to find the right to live and work in the EU isn't so easy to obtain.

I've run across some guys who have gone the non-traditional route. Here is an example from a few years ago:

Just flew with a guy who started in aviation about 7 years ago. He learned to fly in 2003. From there he got a job flying a twin cessna in Haiti for awhile then bought a 737 type and went to work for Air Asia in Malaysia. Stayed there for a few years before going to Air Macau on the A320; then Tiger Airways on the A320; and Emirates in the B777.

That's a pretty fast track. Certainly takes some money to pay for the initial rating through commercial-instrument-multi and then a 737 type. Also takes the willingness to move around the world, but it certainly seems possible. He's the second guy I've encountered at Emirates who has progressed so quickly.




Typhoonpilot

Ive heard of guys in the States doing the regional route and getting hired to fly heavy metal well within 7 yrs. If your hell bent on something large, have you looked into the Cathay Pacific cadet scheme?

Not endorsing it by any stretch as it's a bad deal on the current conditions but just pointing out what's out there.

Hiller92... Please DO NOT let posts by Adlerdriver and those who share his opinions discourage you.

What Adlerdriver purports is baseless and without merit. I’ve trained ab-initios and cadets on the B727 in the US and B737-800 in Europe. The majority of the entry level pilots reported for training with about 250 hours.

I am here to tell you that many of them who started their training as cadets on jets in 2005 are now line captains on aircraft such as the B747 B757 and B737NG series with great success.

I have seen adverts for entry level F/Os in perhaps less desirable parts of the world. As these jobs do not exist in the US, I recommend you contact employment agencies such as PARC, Crew leasing, Aero Professionals, Sigmar, Rishworth… to name a few. You can google these agencies for phone contacts. Recruiters are happy to steer you in the right direction. You may not want to hear what some have to say, but give it a shot.

Anyway, perhaps Adledriver is too young to remember the 1960s when UAL, TWA, EAL, and other airlines hired pilots with 250 hours with a commercial multi and instrument rating. Back in the day, airlines were competing for pilots while, unfortunately, now a day pilots are competing for flying jobs.

In the mean time keep plugging at the time building be it instructing, charter, or whatever.

We all had 250 hours in our logbooks one day looking for that dream job. I’ve been where you are some 35 years ago, and I’ve never been deterred by the likes of the naysayers.

All the best

CAPTJNS

Let me clarify this for the OP so hopefully he understands the dynamics behind the 250 hour wet commercial ticket 737/A320 FO.

If you read job ads for overseas operators, most will say the requirements are 5000 total time, x-amount of PIC jet, but most will specify 500 PIC in type, like say 737NG or A320. In other words, they're looking for direct entry captains.

Why?

Because there aren't enough of their own nationals flying, but they still want to grow their airlines to compete in the world. Examples of that are Emirates, Etihad, Qatar, Korean, etc.

Another reason is that there is a shortage of experienced pilots to train and bring up the nationals up to speed to eventually replace them. Examples of that are the Indian and Central and South American carriers.

Now, you go to Europe, you'll find that flag airlines like British Airways, Air France, Lufthansa etc have their own ab-initio programs where they'll hire people and train them from scratch. Interestingly, at Lufthansa, you may fly for one of their regionals, but you'll never make it into Lufthansa mainline without having gone through their ab-initio.

Now, given the free market in Europe, there's nothing to stop a kid from getting his commercial license the old-fashioned way (think US), and then forking over tens of thousands of pounds/euros to buy a type rating at extremely exaggerated prices. Think A320/B-737 ratings but costing up to 5 times what they cost in the US. Now that pilot got himself into debt, but his aim is Emirates or Etihad or Qatar as they all pay better than European carriers. This pilots puts his time in at easyJet, Ryanair, etc and as soon as they meet the mins (2500 hours in large transport, glass cockpit jets, they're gunning for Emirates. This may not be an option for you because they still require the right to work/live in the EU.

Most pilots find this European practice of "cheapening" Boeing and Airbus seats with 200 hour Cessna pilots (literally) as distasteful and wrong, but yet many of them find it absolutely necessary in order to advance their careers as their general aviation sectors aren't nearly as advanced as ours in the US.

So... where does that leave you as an American with wet commercial ticket and willingness to go overseas?

That really depends on what you're trying to do:

Are you trying to be a "mercenary" so you want to spend your entire career abroad?

Are you trying to bypass the CFI/low-paying, traditional US way to advance?

Are you trying to get jet time so you can get hired at US airlines?

My advice to you is to keep an eye out everywhere and follow the job market trends. I don't know if you have your CFI, but if you don't, I'd get it. If not, you can still try to get jobs flying skydivers and such in Cessna 182's or 206's, etc. Make your own goals/check points.

Here's an example:

500 hours - VFR 135 minimums? Refer to FAR 135.243(b). Got enough multi time to try for some regionals?

1000 hours - do I meet the requirements to apply at regionals? No? What do you need?

1200 hours - do I have IFR 135 minimums? Refer to FAR 135.243(c). Got enough multi time to try for regionals? No? Go fly boxes at Ameriflight, Airnet or Flight Express. It's a great experience and they'll put you in the twin themselves.

Now, there will always be a goal to achieve, whether it's to break 500 hours total time or 500 hours as PIC in a jet or 1000 hours turbine PIC required to apply at certain airlines. Having a system and a plan in place will help you. Flexibility will help you even more.

One thing I'll tell you for sure - don't be in a rush. Enjoy the journey. I'm a corporate heavy iron captain flying overseas after having done most of the above, done the regional, major thing, lost what I thought was my career job due to my airline shutting down, but I still kept on trucking, and moving forward. One thing is for sure though - I look very fond on my time in aviation and I still get a kick out of flying a single engine Piper or a Cessna.

Bottom line, enjoy the ride and make the best of it. Good luck!

I agree the journy is great. I look back and actually miss the days I was flying turboprops. Bigger is not better. I enjoy flying the 737 more than watching the 777 fly.

United used to hire pilots with 350 hours in the '90's.

Regarding Emirates, how hard is it to be considered by Emirates as a US regional FO? Or, are there better options if your goal is to ultimately get to Emirates, Qatar, Etihad?

Emirates has a tendency to not like your experience on aircraft below 55 tonnes (read that to mean turboprops and regional jets).

Plus, Americans in general don't tend to stick out the sand pit the same as folks from Euro-land.