Pilot job situation in UAE/Dubai
 

Those who are familiar with the situation in aviation industry in UAE: are there any feasible job opportunities for American expats, besides Emirates?

The situation is, my husband is fancying moving to Dubai for better job prospects in a year or two. So now I have to concern myself with possibly finding a flying job there as well :D

Emirates would be great, but I don't meet their requirements yet, barely have enough to get an ATP. Flying for a part 121 carrier in the US there's a chance I'll get a type on CL-65 along with the ATP in a few months.

What would be best strategy to go about finding a pilot job overseas (UAE market specifically)? Any career forums that would be helpful to attend? Any particular networking strategies? What is the situation on the corporate side of the house (which probably would be the most viable option).
Being new to international pilot job hunting, I'd appreciate any advice.

you mention you have a husband, so I will go out on a limb and assume that you are female. While I dont work for a company in the ME, I do go thru there a couple of times a month and dont believe I have seen a female pilot. Does not mean it does not exist, but if it does, the ratio is very small, making possibilities that much more difficult. good luck

pprune. org
 

If you haven't went to pprune.org then go there with overseas pilot questions. There are more foreign pilots there from all over the world than us pilots. Someone there would be a me expert.

Lambs to the slaughter. There is no more vial and vindictive website on aviation than PPrune.

Try *************.com - "Pilots helping Pilots". Lots of corporate pilots based in the UAE as well as airline pilots.


TP

I have heard female pilots in the ME on both the corporate side, and at Qatar, Gulf Air, Emirates, PIA and I am sure others. TP is probably correct PPW is a great resource...lots of ME based corp pilots on that forum.

Good gouge bro. Cheers!

Thanks to everyone for replies.

It's good info for me to start with. I'll check out the links. ************* looks like a good place to start.

Yeah, being female I suspected that there may be some (perhaps, unsaid) preferences given to male pilots just because of cultural specifics in that part of the world. That's why I'm leaning more towards corporate flying, should we move to UAE. Hopefully business aviation companies will have a more of a "case by case" approach to the hiring process as opposed to the rigid airline requirements.

I'll keep doing the research, since there's still some time before we have to make big decisions. Gotta start doing the homework now though :cool:

I have been out here several years at a carrier which cannot be named (a joke for those in UAE). I have had a few friends with varied corporate experience come over to search out the elusive juicy contract in Dubai/Abu Dhabi with minimal success. Most of the jobs are looking for seasoned typed drivers of larger jets with the range to reach Europe/Asia/NA and a few hundred right seat hours from a CRJ is not going to get you that far. I know several EK pilots who regularly make rounds to investigate any jobs on the private side and get stone-walled.

If your goal is just to fly for a modest paycheck and you don't have shiny jet syndrome, I know the skydiving drop zone is always looking for jump pilots for the Porter/Otter/Skyvan fleet they have. Easy hours, great view, etc.

RemoveB4flght, thanks! PM sent.

Knew a few people at Royal Jet in AUH - BBJ and G4 etc. Good pay, questionable QOL. Seemed like many were leaving for EK/EY or going back home or to Asia for better gigs. Last I heard there was quite the corruption ring going on with upper management. Makes the good ole' boys' club look like a circus! That said, the UAE is the only place I would consider in the ME. Execujet in DXB or Amiri are the only other ones I would consider if I needed to, but they are looking for time in type guys only. Good luck!

Try flydubai.com It's one of the very few that will hire non-typed at the moment.

I was inline for coffee at CDG a few months ago and there was a very hot little asian pilot who flew for Emirates who I spoke with for a few minutes. Her english had a bit of an accent so not sure where she was from. She looked Thai and was about 35 years old.

Excellent! Researching now.

Thanks!

FO on the 777 I assume? If so, I know exactly who you're talking about.

Agentessa, there are a number of female pilots that I know that currently work for EK, and I'm sure there are also at flydubai. I have a friend of mine who works there and I'll see if I can get any more insight on female pilots that work there.

Any promising leads?

By reputation, FlyDubai will work you ragged! Just about all day trips, everywhere from India to Afghanistan to Cairo.

GF

Read about flydubai on pprune prior to applying. Plus their minimums are at least 2000 hours for non typed pilots.
Late paychecks and flying war zones are common

I am trying to get back there myself. I am a female and acted as PIC on a business jet there for a Kuwaiti owner (with a blonde Canadian girlfriend, who looked stunningly like me!) He was actually very respectful of me and probably one of the most respectful owner/passengers I have ever flown. Life in Dubai is good since there are no taxes. I am trying to increase my credentials to meet Emirates' tonnage requirement. I would recommend getting in on the corporate side to get a flying job in Dubai. If you can get a Challenger type, there will be many doors open to you there. Very easy to get issued the proper licenses in Dubai if FAA/American. Good luck! I loved working there. It is hot as all get out in August and September and Ramadan sucks out loud, but other than the traffic, it is awesome!

Just to clear up a few things about flydubai for those doing their due diligence....

Late paychecks: the UAE central bank had a glitch one month during the summer where those of us who use a different bank than flydubai could not get our salary on the day we usually would expect it. In the end the salary arrived 4 days late. Usually salary arrives on the 25th of every month for those that use NBD and the 26th or 27th for those who choose to bank elsewhere. Mine arrived on the 30th, the last day of the month. The only other problem is that February has 28 days and no one seems to think that putting the salary in a few days early might be a good idea. In Feb my salary still arrived on the 27th lol. Some things are like a brick wall.

Working ragged: my schedule varies every month. Usually published with 80 hours if no vacation. Yes there are some long days to places in Russia, Africa, and central Asia with duty days approaching 13 hours. However in that 13 hours you are getting close to 11 hours of block. If you prefer working like a regional pilot there are days with 4 legs and same amount of duty, however your block hours now are in the neighborhood of 5 hours. Currently only one overnight stop in Dhaka Bangladesh. I prefer the hotel in Dhaka to the hotel my former company used in Newark (Ramada). I never went out in Newark and i dont go out in Dhaka lol. To each his own. The amount of night duties gets the most grief. You can fly three nights in a row, and there is even a provision for 4 nights with enough rest inbetween one of the duties. It's not FAA rules, and the Europeans don't fly at night in Europe because of curfews and noise restrictions at many airports. Different world in the middle east with different rules, but that is why you see so much negativity about schedules on pprune. Just my opinion, but if you spread your 6 weeks of leave out and use your requested days off effectively you can have a schedule that would be better than most regional schedules and some mainline schedules under bk rules. At the end of the day it varies from month to month and there is no bidding except for vacation and two RDOs every month. Due diligence is all I can say.

War zones: flydubai operates to Afganistan, 4 places in total now. Syria service has been pared way back from 3 cities to just one, and even then the flight to Damscus isn't daily anymore because of security. Egypt service at one point was to 3 cities as well, but is now just to Alexandria on the north coast. The company business plan is fluid and it is scrambling to put airplanes where it can make a profit, hence why Afganistan service continues. Everyone has to put that in the decision making process for the job. Even with all the complaining on pprune, of the original pilots who started flydubai only 1 pilot has walked into the chief pilots office and said I won't fly to Afganistan ever again. If you accept the job now, you would be expected to fly there.

Again, do your homework before accepting the job.

Sounds like you think you may upgrade on the rj. I'd say to definitely do it.......get the PIC type and as much time as you can until moving time....... 1000 if at all possible....even it means letting the husband go to Dubai alone to get the last 50 hours. Theres enough executive config rjs with enough pilot turnover to get a quick job over there id think Remember, it's not really corporate over there really in the rj world......more like charter operators. Perhaps they'd type you on Bizjet though......or you could pursue the airline world as well.

thank you
very informative and balanced writing. I am on pprune too but there is so much negativity and a lot of info has to be weed out. its very hard to get a reliable information on that forum but guys like you and others here help fellow aviators looking to tap the expat aviation world. again thank you all.

a question for you:
How fast/easy are the upgrades to CA at the airline? can pilots jump ships to Emirates once the contract is over at FlyDubai?

Time to upgrade is too variable to put an exact number on, but realistically at least two years, probably three. The delivery schedule is slow for most of 2013, maybe 5 airplanes total. 2014 and 2015 will be busy with new aircraft arriving almost one a month, according to the current plan. Also the company just announced it will hire a small number ( around 10) DECs over the next couple of months for "unplanned expansion" which translates to "unplanned resignations". Flydubai is ramping up the upgrade program to get 4 or more upgrades finished per month. The problem though is not everyone passes the upgrade course, which is part of your second question. The course is fairly straight forward, but it is essentially a self study/self prep course. 1st step application/cover letter when you meet company requirements. 2nd step if accepted into the program is an assessment interview. 3rd step is evaluation flights, 12 in total. 4th step is 4days of ground school. 5th step is 3 sims and then a check ride on the 4th. Last step is line training. All of the failures have been in the interview or sim sessions. If you cork the interview it's a 6 month wait to reinterview. If you cork the sim it could be 6 or 12 months before you get a second shot. The problem is that although seniority determines when you start the program the first time, once you fail the training department is not very sympathetic in getting you back in the line for a 2nd go at it. The company will fill you in when it is convienient. It's a mixed curse because it doesn't hold up the guys that have been waiting for their first try, but also gives the 2nd chance guys little notice on when to expect another go at it. Is the course difficult? Too subjective. IMHO it's an exercise in cooperate and graduate.

Flydubai makes you sign a 3 year training bond no matter if you are typed and current or if you are doing a full training course. The bond amount varies, but it is either 24 or 36k prorated over 3 years. No new bond is currently signed when you upgrade, but that could change if new upgrades start leaving. EK and flydubai have an agreement that no flydubai pilot can leave for EK until 3 full years of service are completed. You must interview at EK just like anyone else would as there is no flow up or down between the separate airlines. Rumor has it that flydubai has a similar agreement with Etihad, but that is unconfirmed crewroom speculation. When flydubai first started there was only a 2 year ban to EK, but once the company realized how many pilots were trying to leave they increased it to 3 years. Is it possible it could go to 4 years? Maybe, but there are a few Captains who have been with flydubai 3+ years leaving flydubai for EK this fall and they are not being stopped.

Hope that helps!

I have few questions. Mind if I pm you?

Thank you. Yes, it sure does help a LOT to me and others as well. I have read on forums that EK is hesitant to hire Flydubai pilots and others were saying that those pilots have to wait 3 years AFTER their contract period is over to apply at EK. Guess where i read it, yes the other forum!

Now this firsthand information helps immensely regarding training bonds and upgrades. thanks again.

Hi

If the questions are general that do not compromise privacy and the information can benefit everyone, why not post the questions on this forum so that we all can benefit? :)

Okay Sure.

I needed to know I am currently flying in States for a regional. Sitting with 1900TT, ATP, 1100 PIC, Cl-65 type, 1000 Jet time. If I apply, how soon will they turn me down? Shall I wait?

IMO? Apply. Let them figure it out. Do you meet all of their requirements? No, your TT is short. Is the TT a hard requirement if other numbers are above the minimums?

Good luck.


Pilot Jobs Dubai | flydubai | UAE Pilot Careers & Vacancies Dubai

Application criteria..



Now accepting applications for direct entry captains & first officers.

Before you apply, check the minimum selection criteria below.

All pilots
•Fluent in English to ICAO level 4 or above.
•Hold a ICAO ATPL certificate.
•Hold a 1st Class Medical certificate from ICAO.
•Eligible for a UAE residency visa.

B737 type rated pilots

Captains
•B737-300 to 900 (NG/EFIS) endorsed within the last 24 months.
•At least 5,000 hours total flying time.
•At least 1,500 hours in command of multi-engine aircraft in excess of 10 tonnes.
•At least 1,000 hours in command on B737-300 to 900 (NG/EFIS) type aircraft.

First Officers
•B737-300 to 900 (NG/EFIS) endorsed within the last 24 months.
•At least 1,500 hours total flying time.
•At least 500 hours on B737-300 to 900 (NG/EFIS) type aircraft.

Non-B737 type rated pilots

Captains
•At least 5,000 hours total flying time.
•At least 1,500 hours in command of a modern (EFIS), multi-crew, multi-engine jet aircraft over 55 tonnes operating weight (A318 or larger)

First Officers
•At least 2,500 hours total flying time.
•At least 1,000 hours on modern (EFIS), multi-crew, multi-engine aircraft over 10 tonnes operating weight (preference will be given to those with PIC time).

Apply to be a flydubai pilot

The no answer could arrive in a day, a week, or if you don't meet the mins the app could be rejected immediately. There have been guys with 5,000 hours rejected in the application process for already typed FO. Why? I dont know/didn't ask to be honest. Get that extra 600 hours and then apply would be the best bet, but if you want to fill out the app now and apply no one would fault you for the effort.

Working you ragged and hostile areas...yes. Late paychecks...not. There was one month I remember the banking system had an issue, but the company is very good about on-time pay.

Oops...I needed to read on. Some good info on FlyDubai from previous posters. Some might argue about the degree of ragged work. I contend the schedules are terrible...the 75-80 hour work month at FlyDubai is worse than any 90-95 hour month in the States due to the amount of night flying. UAE rules permit you to fly 10 hours at night with 2 pilots. There are times you will fly 3 deep nights in a row, have a 1.5 day off and turn to early mornings. Schedule is very sporadic. Must say, fient of heart should not apply...logging more combat time that I did in military. However, pay is good and captain upgrade is possible...but taking longer now...perhaps 2-3 years.

ThePenguin328
Thank you for the in depth first hand info.

Are there min days on, or off per month?
Do you bid lines or PBS?
Any reserve lines, or built in?
Seniority based bidding?
Possible to maximize time off by bidding high time trips?
(8 work days X 10 flight hours)
Can you regularly leave the country, is company approval required?

Trying to figure out how the family is going to respond to drastic change.

Appreciate your input.

No bidding for schedules. You are allowed to indicate a preference for two of your days off. They are not additional days off, but two of your 8 minimum days off. Schedules vary, but usually you can expect 11 days off with some rest days mixed in. Also reserve/standby duties are built into your monthly schedule. Usually the standby period will last for a 12 hour period and you have a 1 hour callout to get to the airport. In the last year the most I've had is 3 standbys bulit into my schedule. Lately they have been publishing schedules with something called an available day. That just means 30 hours before the available day the company will assign a flight, standby, or day off. Just looking my Oct schedule I have: 13 flight days, 3 Available days, and 1 standby. I expect atleast one avaiable day will turn into a standby. My days off are in blocks of two except for one block of three days off. The schedules are built to the local FAR max. So if the rules say you need 8 days off, that's what they try to build the schedule with. The rules work a little different out here. Block hours matter less than duty hours when looking at your weekly flying max. 900 hours in a year is the allowed block hours, but the company won't let you fly more than 85 in a month unless you are called from a standby.

This is not a commutable job to the US if that's what you are asking. You can trip trade, but over the last few months it has become very restrictive to where most flights cannot be traded, especially if they are night flights that go into the next calendar day. Occasionally you can find guys who hate long flights to Russia, Ukraine, etc and will swap for shorter days, but usually everyone prefers the longer block days. Everyone except a very small minority avoids the long night flights.

You can leave the UAE at anytime with no restrictions. The longest the company has ever kept my passport was 6 hours to renew my residency visa. The only company permission you need is to purchase a staff travel ticket on Emirates, and that is just a formality to make sure you have the days off you intend to travel. If the ticket is for your wife/kids then it really isn't a factor.

Excellent info ThePenguin328
THANK YOU !
Does night flying, covering two calendar days, count as two flight days?
I read that EK pilots were required permission to leave the UAE.
Not sure if it was true, or applied to other UAE based carriers.
I was not considering commuting to the US.
Planning on leisure travel to change scenery.
(Bribe the family with reasons to move) :D

Not true.

We are technically required to fill out a form with contact info, that's all.

If on certified sick days then it's true to an extent, must get a doctor's permission to leave.


TP

A quick response to the OP; perhaps it's already been picked up. But I've only briskly scanned the thread.

You mentioned the possibility if a CL rating in the near future. Given the amount of biz aviation in the region, a lot of which is using super mid size aircraft like the CL, I would say that it may be a very prudent move to show up with an ATP and an Challenger rating.

I personally know 2 people who have got CL jobs in the Middle East. One is in Abu Dhabi, the other is in Bahrain.

The latter is living the dream. The aircraft is owned by a wealthy individual, and is generally used to fly his wife and friends to Monaco/St Tropez for shopping trips and the like.

He's paid an excellent salary, flies 4 days a month, 5 star hotels, everything on the expense card (what's a Michelin restaurant bill for your pilot, when your surname is Sheikh?) the works. BUT, he was hired because of his CL rating.

Food for thought...

Instead of flight duty days I should have said flight duty periods. A night flight covering a part of two calendar days is still one duty period.

The travel options from Dubai are pretty good. Lots of places to see that wouldn't be easy from the US because of time zone changes and connecting flights. Lots of families head over to Sri Lanka, Thialand, Maldivies, Seychelles, and nearby parts of Africa. At times it can feel isolated here, but Europe is also within 5-8 hours depending on destination.

Hahaha, although with a doctor's permission it still require the approval from CP. I was denied the permission to leave although cleared by the surgeon!