Kapitanleutnant

Just wondering aloud how this might affect the likes of Qatar, Emirates and Etihad with some of the US pilots flying at those airlines.....

American Airlines: We expect to hire or recall about 2,500 pilots over the next five years | Airline Biz Blog

K

gcpilot

Prior to working for airlines like Emirates, Qatar; I thought the airlines needed some kind of "clearance" stating the pilots give up their seniority and rights to be recalled.

The Dominican

There is a good argument to be made for jumping ship to DAL, even a better argument to go to UPS or FDX, but AA??? I have a feeling that maybe a couple dozen of the younger pilots (40 and bellow) might take leap of faith, but I seriously doubt that you will see a large exodus, for pilots mid 40's and over I would be very surprised if you see more than a handful do it.

EYBusdriver

Once in the expat game and you've received your command it's hard to move. Maybe some of the first officers may think about it, but if you are a wide body captain making between 14K and 18K per month it would be a bit difficult to go back to the right seat at AA. We have some ex DL, AA and UACAL guys here and none that I've spoken to are going back.

captjns

I’ve been an expat for the better part of 22 years with a short stint back in the US 14 years ago. My only regret is that I returned to a startup carrier in the US which eventually went bust. In the early years of my travels around the world, I passed on my recall rights to stay abroad. No regrets on that note as we all know what has happened to pay and benefits with many US carriers. However I was single at the time and the choice was easier. Many foreign carriers offer decent housing with good medical and education tuition benefits too. However it’s still an awful lot to uproot a family, move them half way round the world, and immerse them in a whole new culture with restrictions on one’s life style. It works for some… and well not for others.

Captains and F/Os overseas may think long hard about returning to the US to a minimum wage job without benefits with plenty of uncertainties. First Officers at many airlines abroad earn more than captains at some US carriers... with benefits housing and other perks. Some positions are non-commuting positions and thus may be hard on family life. Many may consider the potential for saving money, rapid upgrades, and the experience of living abroad outweigh taking a job in the US... even either DAL or UACAL.

I would think it pretty hard for a first officer at, let’s say EK, who is within a year or two of the left seat, earning good money to return to home at a good airline with the prospects of earning pay less than what cabin crew earn abroad, with the prospects of delaying the upgrade for another 10 plus years… and with the risk of furlough. Perhaps not the best career move.

A pilot is far more marketable globally with a couple of years of command under their belt. Command can lead to other opportunities in the BBJ arena too.

Other than living in the US, I don’t see the advantage of returning to a job with an entry level pay check with little or no job security.

Typhoonpilot

I actively encourage any American pilot under age 40 to make the move to DAL when they start hiring. DAL made $1 billion last quarter; they have a very good contract now; and they will be hiring 500 pilots per year minimum for the next decade or more. I'd put a realistic upgrade time on narrow body equipment at DAL at around 7-10 years for an early 2013 hire. In that time one could easily fly widebody F.O. for many years. Not a bad living with their current pay scales.

If I was age 40 or under that is what I would do and for many of the reasons that JNS spells out. Even with only 25 years left one could have a very good career at DAL.

There are very few expat gigs that are good for the long term. When the growth stops at these places they will likely become miserable places to work. For now, with the explosive growth, they are exciting places to be.

We have over 300 Americans at Emirates. I wouldn't be surprised if at least 50-100 leave to go back to the States when the hiring starts.



Typhoonpilot

Kapitanleutnant

Couldn't agree more TP. I've flown with several young US F/o's in their early 30's and they both said essentially this: 35 more years is MUCH more do-able in the US (home country) vs at EK/Dubai.

I too think the US airline hiring is poised to take off hiring-wise as each airline will need to hire at least several hundred a year just to maintain zero growth... And again that is for each major airline.

Time to the left seat in the US industry could be around 7 years for new hires in this initial wave.

So let's see..... Left seat on a nice 777 at EK flying 92 hours plus a month, and residing in Dubai (not all that bad mind you!).... Or being an FO in your home country in your early 30's with the prospect of left seat in 7-ish years at a major with arguably better contracts (sans AA at present) and probably having 20 plus years in the left seat... All in your native land!

For those younger gents, it seems a no brainier to me... But that's just me!

Certainly there are many things to consider with this possibility and what is good for one is not so for another.

Kap

The Dominican

Agreed, the interesting question would be how many would go for AA?

captjns

Given the fact the airlines were on many hiring sprees which also lead to many a furlough spree too.

I agree given the choice a young FO may be better off in the US. It would be a hard choice for a $15,000 a month skipper to return home for a $40,000 per year position. One may never recover the lost income by returning to the US to the majors.

Tough decision either way.... especially when there are families involved in the equation.

Typhoonpilot

DAL year one pay is $62,000 with the new contract. Not great, but at least liveable. Second year on a narrowbody is in the 80s. Someone hired early in the wave should be widebdoy F.O. by 3rd year and then it's easily over 100K. That's if the world doesn't implode of course.

At least this time the hiring isn't for growth, it's just pure attrition. If there is any growth then it's a bonus. If there is any downsizing it would have to be pretty significant to result in furloughs.

If I was under 40 I'd very likely take the risk.



TP