Thedude

What are you talking about....that was the way it HAS been.

AirbusA320

There were NO regionals circa 1978, at least on the scale there is today. There Piper Navajo's or Twin Otters as standalone commuters and a couple of Shorts linked up to US Air.

Back them if you had 3,000TT you were golden. National airlines bragged how their applicants had 2,000 hours of turbojet time.

I think we have different points of view.

The Dominican

As I posted before, I agree in concept that a young pilot should as a base plan go for a career at a major/stablished carrier. Regretably that is not the way this career works for the majority of people, only a few (percentage wise) of pilots do get hired and accumulate enough seniority to not become furlough fodder, but the vast majority falls into circumstances that send you on another direction, back at the beginning of the 90's I got hired at what I though was my career golden ticket, I came back to the US from a corporate gig abroad to my "last job in aviation" the downturn of 91 changed the whole aviation scene, even the job that you now suggest as a good career path wasn't at all expected to survive back then. I certainly didn't plan to have to go back to the expat market and I wasn't waisting time, time would have been wasted working at a supermarket to wait for the aviation jobs to pick up again, mid 90's again went for another carrier job that didn't pinned out and then again at the end of 2,000 getting hired and 9/11 finding me in the pool and getting stuck in regional purgatory, What time you figure that I have wasted in my career? I have been very active in the pursuit of the mainline carrier job and in fact have been very lucky at getting hired, the jobs simply didn't materialized and that is the story of the majority of pilots, the career at the majors happen to a small percentage of pilots. For me the expat market has been a very good backup plan and I don't feel that time has been wasted, or you feel that I should have stayed in regional purgatory and wait for this so called hiring boom? Sorry but I don't subscribe to the idea that I should have stayed put and earn 40% of what I have earned in the same time period, not withstanding the fact that at 48, the time to start at the bottom of the pile has come and gone.

Another concept that surprises me is that people really believe that if you choose (by circumstances in life and not by original design) to explore the expat opportunities somehow your family life will suffer, or it will be unfulfilling in any way that concept just boggles my mind, What makes you think expats don't have a solid family life? As a matter of fact, I know very few expats that are unhappy with what they are doing, I certainly enjoy it and I will look back on it as a great opportunity/ adventure and learning experience, not as waisted time. And of course I make more than double what my colleagues that didn't get furloughed or chose jobs that survived make. I'm not saying it works for everybody, but your theory that I'll be happier on reserve as an F/O at USAir, specially with the merger with AA looming (wait until they mix the APA boys to that east vs west feud, Oh boy, it is going to be interesting to watch) I think that is ludicrous.

Probe

I flew 13 years for a major in the US, and flew the last four years at two contract jobs. I enjoyed the contract jobs far more than I ever enjoyed my job in the US. I am going back to the US in Feb to my old job. Hopefully it will be better.
The airline industry has never been stable, but in the US it might be becoming stable for the first time, ever. At least I hope so. If not I will quite happily go back to contract flying.

Advice to newbies? I think in the future corporate will pay much better than the airlines. Why?
Who gets paid better, the city bus driver, or the CEO's limo driver? We are flying around with Ma and Pa Kettle in the back, and over time, our pay is going down to reflect the customers we are servicing. Sad but true.

I can't even imagine what a debacle an AMR/USair merger would be. Not just labor, but route networks. AMR would spend billions shrinking the combined entity 20-30%, and shutting half of USair's base's. It doesn't make any sense to me other than killing off a competitor by merging with it.

captjns

Advise for newbies??? Get a four year degree in area other than aviation, mass communication, arts. Get a degree that will get oneself a job in a solid career. Get a masters too if one can stick it out while getting their feet wet in aviation. Try for that corproate job.

Jughead

Actually, a quick Google search shows average bus drivers salaries and average limo drivers salaries are very comparable.
But your logic is flawed anyway. There are good and bad jobs in corporate as well as part 121. I personally enjoy my job, and wouldn't trade for even the best corporate job out there. I'm not sure who's flying Ma and Pa Kettle, but they're paying the cost of the ticket, just like anyone else.
Just out of curiosity, why are you returning to your old job, if you enjoy your ex-pat job more?

Probe

Jughead;
I am not sure I agree. Probably a "rental" limo driver doesn't make to much, but I bet Bill Gates's limo driver makes a bunch. In the mid 90's, at least once a week I had a celeb, sports figure, etc sitting in first class. By the mid 2000's, almost never. the major's salaries have been going down forever. DAL and UAL just signed contracts that approximately equal their bankruptcy contracts of 7-8 years ago when adjusted for inflation. It keeps getting worse.

Why come back?

I didn't come up through the civilian flying ranks, and don't have the same mindset as far as jobs. It turns out my "mindset" was wrong. I broke my leg 5 months ago, All of a sudden, having a secure job was very comforting.

My deal at my old airline is a voluntary furlough, for up to 10 years. But they have to be hiring for me to return. They have only hired about 2 years out of the last 10. It just looks like a good time to return. If the airline does well, I do well. If the economy tanks, again, I can go right back to the contract world. Either way I win. I will return to contract flying at the first opportunity. I had a great time.

Jughead

Right on - to each his own. I like my job - but really wouldn't recommend the career to anyone. I'm thankful neither of my teenage sons has ever shown any interest in aviation.
Honestly, my company seems more on-track now than ever before. I'm thankful for my job, but never forget luck and timing were, and always will be, my best friends.
Good luck.

Typhoonpilot

Sorry to hear about the leg. That said, it was always something I worried about when I had a contract job and one of the reasons why I'm not real hot on contract flying overseas as a career. The U.S. majors offer far better benefits for such circumstances. I.E. you won't lose your job if you break your leg and you won't lose much pay. Not so true in the expat world. I'm lucky in that with my job I could break my leg or have some other health problem and keep a full base salary for up to one year, but once that year is up the job goes away. Most contract jobs do not offer anything close to that.

I'm also not so sure about the corporate pilot world. I've watched dozen of pilots lose their job in the corporate world over the years. All too often it is very sudden. The "1%" are becoming targets for the 99% ( 47% ). Their theft of our pensions and continually pushing us down into servitude is not going to last much longer before their is a true uprising and change. When that happens many of those jobs flying the investment banker, mutual fund manager, hedge fund manager, etc will evaporate.


TP

pilotrob23

our neighbor here in Dubai broke his shoulder down the street, out on a 4 wheeler in the sandbox. Out for over a year, with all the injuries he had. Emirates has paid his full salary the whole time. You and I are lucky to be here, as you read some of these other stories. I hear the contract gig can be very tough in that regard.