FAA ATP conversion to JAA
 

hey all,

I was wondering if anyone here has converted their FAA ATP to JAA ATP?

Is there much involved? Can it be done in the US?

Any guidance would be welcome,

regards

If you are airline CA the conversion process is fairly easy.

If not you need to do the ground school for the 14 written exams. Do a CPL, can be done in the USA, the IR must be done in the EU.

Most schools allow you to do a distance learining course for the 14 exams.

Why do you want to convert? If you can't legally work in the EU it won't really help you unless you want to get on with a MidEast carrier or Cathay Pacific.

I got half way through on a distance leanring course. I learned a lot. It makes the US ATP look like a joke.


NAC: EASA ATPL Ground School

Bizpilot,

Thanks for the info. I am retired from airline flying full time and would like to pick up some part time work especially ferry flying if possible. I figure a lot of aircraft delivery flights don't require EU work visa?

"Cathay Pacific". CX dont require a JAA license. I spent 5 years with Dragonair (part of CX) and they accept most licenses and do a quick conversion to CAD ATP.

JAA is now EASA. An EASA conversion can be done in the US, and if you are converting an ATP, then it is easier than converting a CPL.

So the three things you need are:
Initial Class 1 medical
14 Written Exams
Complete an ATP flight test

If you already have the ATP, you still need to complete the 14 written exams but you do not have to be enrolled in a school. You can self certify. However, you will need to get over to Europe and have an initial Class 1 medical done at an Aeromedical Center (AMC). You cannot get an initial Class 1 from an AME, only renewals can be done through them.

Next, you need to complete the 14 ATPL exams. Each country handles them a bit differently, but the UK has some testing centers outside of the UK, including one in Florida. UK exams are held once a month. I know also that in Spain, exams can be done whenever you please however you must travel to Madrid to take the exams (and you don't want a Spanish license, trust me). Since you already hold an ICAO ATPL, you do not need to enroll in a course (this will save you between $1500 and $3000 for a distance learning course). If you feel competent, just get a set of used Bristol or Oxford books and sign up for an online question bank through the likes of Bristol or ATPLonline (the EASA database has about 15,000 questions for all 14 exams). If you sign up with any provider, any part of it is optional as you are already an ATPL holder.

Next, you can only convert to an EASA ATPL if you have at least 500 hours of time on multicrew aircraft. To get an EASA ATPL, you will need to do a flight test observed by an EASA examiner, so your best bet would be to do a flight test on an aircraft in which you are typed and to do it in Europe. Otherwise, you will have to pay business class fare and 5 star accommodations for an examiner to fly out to your location.

If you decide to do this, I would recommend Bristol Groundschool for distance learning, regardless of which country you decide to do your exams. I would not recommend NAC, as I have been there myself in person and found them to be not great compared to what you could get. Besides, they would only be able to help you out with the ATPL theory which you aren't even required to do. You only have to do the exams as current ATP holder.

By the way, licensing bodies fees vary wildly from country to country. Customer service also varies wildly from country to country. New EASA regulations allow you to get a medical in one country, do your exams in another, and your flight test in another and you can choose the country that issues your license but not ever country is on board yet with the new licensing rules. Choose your country wisely.

Zondaracer,

Thankyou very much for your input. I really appreciate you taking the time. As you may have guessed I know zero about licensing in Europe.

"you will need to do a flight test observed by an EASA examiner"

Can this be done in a simulator? My main aim is to get EASA license with my Airbus ratings on it so I am hoping a 330 sim check would be the flight test?

And is it a UK ATPL that I would be applying for which is then accepted as a EASA license?

Sorry to sound so .. . . .dumbass!

Don't worry, there are no stupid questions concerning the EASA conversion. EASA and FAA are so different, that I was surprised many many times during my conversion, and I get such shocked reactions from my friends when I tell them the differences.

Anyhow, to answer your questions... yes, the flight test can be done in a simulator. I have a friend who is an Aeroflot A320 Captain and he just did his conversion on a simulator at Oxford Aviation in the UK. If I were you, I would contact CAE, Oxford, and Flugschule Berlin (the last one will probably get you a pretty good price and they use someone else's sims up in Amsterdam or else they use someone's else's in Berlin).

The new EASA regulations state that your license will be issued in the country which holds your aviation medical records. This does not mean that your initial class 1 must be done in that country. For example, I have a friend who did his initial class 1 in the UK, and he did his ATPL exams in the UK, but he had his medical records transferred to Denmark and did his flight test for his CPL in Denmark, and was issued a license by Denmark. Another friend did his initial class 1 in Norway, did his exams in the UK, and had his medical transferred to the UK and was issued a license by the UK after he did his flight test in the UK. Regardless of the country, you will be issued an EASA license a national authority.

Have a look at Denmark, they recently proposed eliminating all fees for licensing and general aviation by putting a surcharge on commercial air carriers. The licensing fees in the UK are quite ridiculous if you ask me. (14 exams at approx 70GBP each). Having said that, I have found the customer service at the UK CAA to be ok (at least much better than the Spanish AESA)

I did this-and I cannot stress how important the country you do it in is.

Some will give you credit for PIC(P1) time on larger a/c. That credit is applied towards the tests you take. If you want to fly
In the country I did ,they made me take a MCC (multi crew concept) class in a generic sim.Total waste of time but the national rules here are a tad different than the JAA rules were. And no credit for flight time except that I did not have to go to the classroom,I just self studied and went into the test.

Now JAA is EASA and god only knows what this will mean.

Again,talk to a EASA member state Aviation Authority. The UK may be different than Italy,Greece,France etc.Find which one is better for your needs.The concept is standardization,but in practice its much more variable.

When you talk to them,make sure they know you are after an EASA ticket and not a National one.

Thanks guys for the input. I really appreciate it.

If I obtained an EASA/JAA ATPL, can I then transfer my type ratings across from my FA license or Hong kong license or would I need to do a full type rating like you do here in the US?

thanks again

You can transfer type ratings to your EASA license by completing a sim evaluation with an examiner if you have 500 hours on type.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but regarding picking the correct country to issue your ATPL, is that still the case now that EASA is around? I know that was clearly the case (I've only dealt with the Swedish authorities who have been quite easy, while I've heard horror stories about Spain), but I thought the whole point with EASA was to streamline and have everything the same way across all countries. Just like the intention was with JAA, which clearly failed.

In all honesty I do highly doubt EASA will succeed with this, just like the EU itself.

EASA = same hot mess, just a different label

Does the country you get the EASA license through have an impact on where you can work/live and who will hire you?

I have French citizenship and would like to live there; does that mean I should go through France for the process? Or would the UK licensing be just as good? I ask this because it seems the UK is the most common and well understood.

Also, I hold an FAA ATP but don't think the SA227 metroliner will pass for dual crew aircraft. Does that mean I need to sit through some of the groundschool?

You can get your licenses anywhere .. EASA is for all EU countries. Good luck.

So why all the emphasis on choosing your country wisely?

I did my CPL conversion in the UK, from the time they received my papers until the time I had the license in my mailbox, about 2 weeks.

A friend of mine went to Greece, he waited 14 weeks for his license.

I worked at a flying school in Spain... many guys were waiting about 8 weeks for their licenses in the mail.

In the UK, they have same day counter service at the CAA if you go in person for adding ratings and what not... let's just say this service isn't available in Spain.

I met a guy with a Dutch issued license who was flying in Spain, and he pays lower renewal fees than I do in the UK and he seems to have very good customer service like I do in the UK.

Sorry to beat this but other than customer service, obtaining my license through the UK won't affect my eligibility to work elsewhere? Or would I eventually have to jump through more hoops of the country of residence?

Really appreciate your help. It's very encouraging to not go into this blindly.

If you have French citizenship, you can work anywhere in the European Union, Norway, Iceland, and Switzerland. Some companies might make you switch your license over to the local country, which is usually just a paperwork exercise, but the country of license issue, as long as it is EASA, will not restrict you from working in one country or another.

As an example, Ryanair has hired pilots of all nationalities from Europe with licenses issued by all countries, but they require all pilots to switch their country of license issue to Ireland once hired. Mostly just a paperwork/money exercise.

Starting my process with bristol. I work in us and have more than enough multi crew time under my belt. At the sams time thenairplane i am typed in has a simulator in france. Will have to do the fjnal evaluation there.

So... Just to summarize, please correct me of I'm wrong.

Info- I am a EU citizen. Working in the us (dual citizen) and have my ATP, and greater than 500 hours in type, CL65. It's a PIC type.

All I'd have to do is the 14 written exams, to convert? And I can do them through somewhere here in the US (I've heard Florida) or would I need to go to Europe? I'm also slightly confused about why the countries matter so much, aside from fees.

Example scenario, I'd like to apply to a British carrier like BA/Virgin....so any info on how to reach that level of eligibility would be much appreciated. Thanks!

Great choice!

You have to do the 14 written exams plus a "license skills test" for the aircraft in which you have a typed rating. You can do this on an approved simulator. You have to go through a TRTO (type rating training organisation)

If you already hold an ATP, you do not need to do a course, you can self certify to take the exams, and you can take the exams in Florida. They are held once a month at the Holiday Inn in Orlando, Florida.
CAAi - USA

Let me put it this way... as an example, the hiring gouge for NetJets Europe says that they won't hire anybody with a Spanish license... too many problems dealing with the authority (if that is true or not, I don't know). Compared to many countries, the FAA is actually very efficient and streamlined. I hear people complain about the FAA, but until you have dealt with the licensing authorities in some countries, you don't realize how frustrating it can be to work with real incompetence. Another example... I know a Dutch guy with a Dutch license and he has a lot of time flying the Caravan. He is also a class rating instructor, and in Spain, they would not let him teach in the Caravan even though the regulations said that he could. He called the Dutch authorities and they went ahead and printed on his instructor certificate "Cessna Caravan" even though information like that does not get printed on your license, but they did it just for him because the Spanish authorities were giving him such a hard time.

Sure, there are guys flying all over Europe with licenses from all countries... but if you are waiting 4 months for your license renewal to come in the mail, that is 4 months of lost income. In Europe, you do not get a temporary license like you do in the US. In Europe, the rules for license "renewal" and "revalidation" are completely different. I have heard of cases of guys in some countries getting a type rating and adding it to their license, and when they get their license, there is a mistake. By the time they get the mistake corrected, their type rating is already expired... seriously. So it does matter which country you use.

Can anyone tell me, is it possible to take the 14 written tests in Hong Kong, or do I need to go to Europe?

There is a testing center in Malaysia and one in New Zealand. There is also one in Florida. Otherwise, you'll have to make the trek to Europe.

CAAi - Part-FCL Exams