China southern
 

Hi ladies and gents,

Can anyone send or inform me on how the 60 hr a month 777 schedule out of LAX work with CSA? Anyone there already? all help would be greatly appreciated as Im looking to submit my interest and see where it goes.

Cheers

Heard they are a bit harsh on the interview for American expats. Had some friends interview and all rejected. This was a year ago but things may have changed.

FO or Cptn contracts? What are the T & C's like?

777 Captain schedule out of LAX , more interested in the 60 hr lower pay contract. Thanks for any info...

Cheers

China Southern only has reverse roster patterns available in Melbourne and Brisbane. They are promising other bases as soon as enough qualified applicants choose those bases ( the ones they are advertising ). That was current as of a month or two ago. If they have opened new reverse roster bases I haven't heard. Best to check with Longreach or Tasman as they seem to be in the know on current events.

I've seen copies of the Melbourne and Brisbane schedules. They looked reasonable. Not that I am recommending either of the two, but I bet if you contacted BB at Tasman he would show you the schedules since he has them on a powerpoint slide.



Typhoonpilot

A Chinese Airline harsh and not passing foreign pilots at an interview? Surely you jest!

Correcto señor.......! I don't think it is about American pilots since they turn down folks from all corners!

About the promises of reverse rosters in new cities when they get enough pilots etc. I'm still waiting for that ORD base that they told us about during initial training 7 years ago.:D (I don't work there mind you, its just the general feeling i have about the place, take at face value) If you take this job, be content with being based in Guangzhou for the duration of the contract, if anything else opens up (big IF) then it's gravy but if you get this gig thinking you will be based in LA or San Fran in a year, you will get your heart broken and not enjoy the experience.

What Dominican just posted is EXTREMELY important for any job in China. Go for the job for what it is, right now. Not for some promise of an upgrade, new rating, or new base in the future.

The job postings come from offers made by 21 year old office staff at the airline. They are holding a carrot in front of you to try to get you to bite.

Actually long term, foreign bases will most likely go away. Locals get a huge override to fly international (I believe Hainan is 100%). As soon as they have enough locals to fly those routes, your foreign base will go away or you will just DH to CAN to start your domestic trip. Most likely it will go away.

China is the only place I can think of where Americans are the biggest single group of contract pilots (definitely excluding 330 and 340 fleets).

The recruiting staff at my airline said one of the reasons is we pass the ATP written at a much higher rate. The chinese copied FAR's (down to the number, i.e. FAR 121.625).

The passing rate is extremely low for everybody at all Chinese airlines. If you are over 50 the chance of passing the initial medical are very low. If you don't study a lot, you won't pass the ATP written. IF you can't fly a raw data, single engine NDB approach with multiple other failures, you won't pass your sim.

Unfortunately the medical never gets any easier.

Last time I did a raw data single engine NDB appr I was in a Cessna 172!!!

So why all the discontent with American pilots? Maybe has to do with taking the jobs of Chinese pilots, but other than that I don't know.

So where are they getting all these wide body captain's and fo's from.

How picky can they continue to be if they need so many pilots for all their airlines who are having to pay upwards of 200K US/year to recruit…. even having to give a road show in the US a few months back.

I wonder if someone at one of those road shows ever stood up and said to the recruiters, "Do you all know why you have to come all the way to the US to find pilots? It's because your work ethics are zero in your business, your contract promises are hollow, your medicals are such that even the world's astronauts couldn't pass and your basings in our country are meaningless as per past practices and reality. So… can you tell me again why anyone in this room should go to your country to fly for you?"

I'm sure no one did this but I've often thought about what their answer might be.

They wouldn't want me and I certainly don't want them. Shame though really…. there seems to be some great potential there but at the end of the day, they really are a 3rd world nation…. granted with a pretty big military! :-)

Kap

My last one was on my last PC.

My last 4 were on my last Chinese PC. LOL We get 3 practice days (4 hours) and then the 4 hour check ride. Unfortunately the 4 total days were back to back. Midnight to 4 am, then 4 am to 8 am. Two days in a row to make 4 days. Talk about a b@llbuster pair of all nighters. Luckily I had all the single engine raw data approaches to keep my awake.

The Chinese only know one way of business - their way. They actually treat expats better than they treat each other. They could care less how many expats they spend 200k to recruit. It is socialism, which means it is "someone else's money".

I enjoyed most of my time in China, but after all I saw, I still only recommend it to a pilot who has another, secure, job to go back too. A guy on a LOA or furlough from another airline. The money looks great on paper, but if you are med down for 4 months of every year, how does it look then?

Most of the successful applicants are Ex-Ryan Air guys from Europe. The pass rate for the sim is very low. One group had 14 with only 3 passing the sim. Of those 3 only 1 was successful in the medical. Remember you will do 2 actual checkrides in the sim, one for the company and one for the CAAC. Rarely they are done simultaneously but normally the company/interview ride and then the CAAC check, before you even start training.
I think this will be an OK contract if you are a type rated Captain. If you are Non-typed I would avoid this contract as you will be a defacto Cruise Captain. You will fly with another Chinese Captain and an FO on longhaul and ULR flights, never actually signing for the jet but just as an enroute Cruise Captain. Trying to log the flight time as PIC will be very problematic. If you are age 50 plus then I would also avoid this contract as the Chinese astronaut physical will most likely knock you off somewhere along the way. The Chinese are getting many applicants for this contract and they continuously advertise through multiple recruiting agencies just to get a few who will pass all categories of the interview process. Remember the interview is almost a non-player in China. It is the sim and the medical that really count here. Trying to get one base or another will only disappoint you. Plan on going to Guanzhou for most of your flights and if you get a Sydney or another city to start a trip then count yourself lucky. Because this is a new contract plan on may growing pains and several years of trying to educate the CS management on how ExPats want schedules, commuting, basing etc. Overall I think long term this has good potential for rated pilots but NTR pilots will take 18-24 months plus before they actually ever see themselves as the true PIC.

Please keep in mind that with most of the Chinese airlines, educating about the airline culture anywhere else comes with massive growing pains. The airline culture here is based on the fact that the airline OWNS the pilot's licence. They treat the local pilots like indentured servants (pretty much what they are...) so things like QOL, basing, days off and vacation take time for them to adjust to the way most of the expats expect. Plus, as said earlier, the local contracts are written with a large override for foreign flying, so the local pilots get dibs on the foreign flying. Makes a ton of sense... send a Chinese pilot on the international route that requires English while the native english speaker flies the domestic routes in China.

I would be VERY leery being a NTR expat for a Chinese airline. The pass rate (at least at my airline) for even the locals advancing is very low.

These are the same airlines that have problems with doing visuals. I can't imagine them flying raw data anything for their own local pilots. Just another reason to try and wash out expat pilots.

Just flew with a captain that picked up the Air China Cargo, 777 CA position. His contract is 18k a month at 50 hours, and his buddy who is there on the same contract flew 90 hours, and brought in 35k in one month. I am waiting for the specifics on the contract job, and will post when I get it, but is this a reality for anyone out there flying? Seems like it was too good to be true, but it certainly wasn't through Wasinc, or Rishworth. Keep everyone posted if I hear more! Cheers.

So why does signing for the plane or being the "actual" PIC matter?
Who cares about logging PIC if you are qualified for this position?
the money is the same right? or not?

The magic minimum hours in the hull DO matter, a LOT! After that they don't at all. But it is best to cross that threshold as soon as possible, because if it turns out that the job is not what you expected or worst yet, your family doesn't adjust to the new gig, then you are stuck at a job where you are not gaining the minimum hours to go somewhere else and you are not current on your previous A/C either.

"IF you can't fly a raw data, single engine NDB approach with multiple other failures, you won't pass your sim."

Local pilots can crash the sim and still get through. There are certain elements within the chinese system that do not want foreign pilots and they will use their power as doctor or sim checker to get rid of you.

The local standards are REALLY bad. I had one check captain during a sim session explain to me that "sea level in hong Kong is different to China"!!!!!!

LOL. I never said anything about it being fair. It is what it is.

"If it pays a lot, it is because nobody wants to work there. If it is a commuting contract, it is because nobody wants to live there."

Confucious
Famous ancient Chinese airline pilot.

All great points for most I guess.
As long as I get paid as advertised and don't have to be responsible, ie Captain pay for sitting in either seat with no real responsibilities, omg what a deal!!!

Heading to CAN shortly for screening. Still a high failure rate in the simulator. No feedback either. They are desperate for B777 Cpts. If that's the case they need to offer reverse scheduling even if that requires commuting or duty travel to begin duty in CAN. To do this outside of company provided travel is unrealistic. I can't imagine too many guys taking a CAN base unless you're unemployed. If you are unemployed, it's unlikely you will get thru the sim not current.

CSA
 

Good luck man! let us know how it goes and any updates plz!!

So far so good. The sim this screening resulted in a 70% pass and only a small number were dropped during the medicals. It's a long week but hopefully the end result is positive.

I have an interview with CSA next month for B777/787 Command. Do you have any gouge or information that can help me pass the assessment? I appreciate anything you can tell me.

555! (5 is "Ha" in Thai).

Does anyone have any more up to date information on CS?

Q: How does a lion like to fly his NDB approaches?



A: ROAR data. :)