Grumble

Some guys try to raise the bar, some just want everyone to play by the rules, some just chose the path of least resistance and accept substandard wages and QOL. Pretty clear which camp you fall in.

How much do you pay for your own recurrent training?

captjns

Hmmmm.... so accepting lower wages, in the name of concessions without payback is raising the bar. Hmmmm... terminating pension plans, wiping out accumulated benefits is raising the bar. Hmmmm

Aren't you just a bit tired getting your head caught in the fence with your pants down?

CousinEddie

You are right. We got crapped on, no doubt about it. What I didn't realize until recently was that it really wasn't quite as bad as I thought it was. I had absolutely no idea, until recently, how bad things were on your side of the pond. Had I been told just a year ago what life was like for a FR F/O, I never would have believed it. I would have thought that as the SWA or maybe the Spirit equivalent of Europe, it's an OK job. I didn't realize that FR was essentially a single pilot operation: Keep the Captains just barely satisfied and completely screw over the FOs. Listen to you....justifying this insanity with "Oh, it's a stepping stone for them." Even under a bankruptcy contract, my pay and benefits as a FO in relation to what the Captain received was reasonable. Hardly the case in your world. So Mr. O is essentially getting 2 pilots for the price of one. How is anyone that doesn't sink to that level supposed to compete? I honestly don't understand how you can tolerate such a dichotomy in your cockpit.

You asked about the terminated pension plan, pay cuts and all. No, we will never see the A-plan again. The PBGC benefit from that plan I don't expect to actually be there either down the road. The B-plan is still there. Under all those years of a bankruptcy contract, the company kicked in 16 percent of earnings into it (the B-plan) even if the pilot contributed nothing. Does Mr. O do that for you? Does he do it for your FOs? No, we will never be "reimbursed" for the pay cuts. However, the pay rate recovery and profit sharing of late is well beyond what I ever thought we would get back to. Will it last? I highly doubt it. But it will be good while it lasts.

You suggested going after our management and our union to rectify the wrongs. On that, I take your point. In the mean time, why don't you FR Captains get together and make it clear to Mr. O that his airplanes won't move in the near future until you start treating our FOs like the professional pilots that they are. If a Spirit FO can pay a mortgage with his / her job in the US, why shouldn' t one of your FOs be capable of doing the same in Europe? Is it because you have your semi-acceptable contract, so you couldn't care less?

CousinEddie

Well then help me out with my selective memory. Sure, I remember nobody being thrilled about a startup with pay below the industry average. I remember people being rather amazed at the funding they had to get going. I remember hearing squawking about more airplanes in the saturated NE corridor. I do not remember any campaigns against JB like the one involving NAI. So go ahead and refresh my memory. Post something I can click on and read to prove your point.

NEDude

Here is a very quick one for you:

http://airlinefiles.com/jetblue/81-national-regional-airlines/357-jetblue-2.html

captjns

As a contractor there are no benefits. Contractors realize that going in. FR FOs know what their pay structure is as a 2 stripper, Jr. 3 stripper and a SR FO. I'm no longer with FR.

Now for you... you were promised a retirement benefit... right? Said plan was terminated along with all your cash... right? But you can justify the fact that 16 percent was contributed to your B fund... right? And that's OK... screwed out of cash your company was funding. I'll bet that set well with those approaching retirement.

I'm sure all that was part of your contract

captjns

I forgot to mention CousinEddie, you stated that FR pilots shouldn't move the jets until MOL ponied up with better T & Cs. How long did you keep the parking brake set after your airline terminated your retirement plans.... just asking.

Grumble

Wanna compare the career earnings of a LUAL pilot, including the pension grab, with the career earnings at Ryanair?

Completely wrong, along with most of what you post.

captjns

Negative sport

SUX4U

Clearly you aren't going to change anyone's mind nor will anyone change your mind on these aspects/issues our industry faces. Now that it's turning into a Johnson measuring conversation, might it be time to focus on life outside the forums for a bit? Maybe family time might be a good suggestion? I don't know, maybe some sort of faded away hobby could be dusted off? Sooo much time and energy wasted here for nothing.