Jetlife

If only there was an airline that had a Dallas airport base. Better yet, if only there was an airline headquartered in Dallas. NO SUCH LUCK I GUESS

FNGFO

American has so much flow through that it’s hard to get a call, and why go Eagle if SWA or Spirit will hire? Btw, neither DFW or DAL are senior bases for those respective airlines.

Quite a few FJers have applied to Spirit, and I can think of 6 who’ve gone there. Getting a call from Spirit is now more difficult after their contract passed.

Others have gone to AK or one of the cargo Airlines.

FNGFO

People have applied to those places. Maybe you haven’t noticed, but you don’t just drop your app at most majors and get an immediate interview invite.

havick206

Have you looked at the numbers as to the percentage of AA hires off the street that are not Flow through from wholly owned regionals or military?

FFJP

I disagree. If you are lucky enough to get direct hired into Envoy as a Captain (who knows how much longer the program will last) Envoy would be significantly superior to Spirit and perhaps even SWA.

The upgrades are dried up at those carriers for the next 10-15 years despite all your pie in the sky promises or outlooks. If you're not already there you are never going to upgrade if you're 45 plus.

If I were looking at the next 10-15, maybe 20, years of my career as an FO then it would have to be AA. Since Envoy is the easiest route, I wouldn't discount it.

Might take a little longer but it's the smarter move.

LloydBraun

Envoy significantly better than Spirit or SWA. Your off your rocker dude. And by the way upgrades at Spirit aren’t running 10-15 yrs.

Blutarsky

I believe what the OP meant was spending four years at envoy and flowing to AA is superior to spending the rest of your career as an FO at Spirit or Southwest. I haven't run the numbers for that scenario so I can't say whether he is right or wrong, but you will not spend your career at envoy. Those direct entry captain positions come with a guarantee of flow. Last I heard from my friend who went there was four years and you do not start on first year pay when you flow. So it bears investigating for those who are mid forties in age.

FFJP

Yes exactly. Thanks for understanding and clarifying it for me.

Upgrades at Spirit and SWA are currently low but if you got hired on today, I'd be expecting that number to come to a screeching halt soon. Too many young guns have been hired ahead of you.

However AA still has a geezer heavy list. So does Delta.

Pay does average out to make it a good choice however QOL as an AA FO is significantly better. As a 10-15 year FO you can expect one and dones to South America for a couple hundred grand a year. Sign me up please.

Don't believe the hype LloydBraun. Do your research and chart out your career and expectations depending on your personal details. Read each contract and gouge the QOL posts. Right now for over 45, Envoy is a better bet than SWA or Spirit if there are still direct entry Captain positions. I heard the program will be open through the rest of 2018 but not if they can fill them all sooner.

FNGFO

SWA is projecting that their upgrade time will decrease to 7 years, and Spirit isn’t sitting pat at 177 planes. Another order will happen and upgrades will continue. Still at 3-4 years? TBD, but the point of my post was that it’s not easy to get a call from AA

Also, one solid hiccup in the economy and and that guaranteed Envoy flow through could end up being a lengthy RJ stay.

We’ll see what the future holds. If you landed a direct CA spot and manage the flow through then good for you. I suspect they aren’t just handing those out willy nilly and that many Flex pilots will still be happy to secure a spot at NKS or SWA if and when AA doesn’t call.

FFJP

Nope not for me either way. Simply commenting because I'm hearing the same cockpit consternation you are. Many are deriding the choice of some to go the Envoy route, encouraging holding out for SWA when it's not neccessarily the best choice, especially if the call will never come. I'm simply saying (and advising the few Ive spoken with) to jump on the Envoy ship if that's the next one leaving port.

FWIW, Spirit is now being more selective than SWA. Forget about it unless you have a spotless TR, employment and social history (dui/dwi etc.) Alaska is done for now, SWA is open but still a tough sell for most to get on and AA is all legacy hires or flow through. UA and DL are heavily focusing on military and legacy hires too.

There's this overgrown fallacy in our world the shortage (the one our Chairman doesn't believe in) has made job hunting easy. It's not and in some ways it's harder than ever because you have all kinds of frac and charter guys with a dream entering the 121 market who would have never considered it before.

One thing is for sure, Flexjet will be losing a lot of pilots in the next year regardless of whatever management does to right the ship. Some holes just can't be plugged once they start gushing. For most, Flexjet has become a ****ty job they can't pay you enough to put up with.