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Current Job vs Flex jet vs XO Jet vs Netjets

Old 10-30-2018, 07:22 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Packrat View Post
Unions don't always have your back.
True, but they also back people that should be canned without question. Saw it at NJA often, there were so many people that lacked any moral character and were a blatant danger to society and the workplace. Some even given multiple warnings after workplace incidents and still allowed to have a job.
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Old 10-30-2018, 07:25 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by OhSnapAF View Post
And that gutless union won’t put a hard stance for major QOL improvements either.
Ah, another pilot uses the word "union" when they should use "pilots."
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Old 10-30-2018, 11:03 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by DenVa View Post
Ah, another pilot uses the word "union" when they should use "pilots."
I get what you are saying, and I agree 100% that pilots are responsible for the contract they have. However, I watched it at NetJets first hand. The union asked the questions on what they should go after. For the most part, the negotiating committee went after the hard points THEY all thought were the big ticket items. Essentially, they went strictly after pay (which fell short btw) and ignored lots of other little things on paper, but would have been big in QOL. The surveys were worded specifically to address only key issues they had decided on, and not really listening to the pilot group.

That being said, 3 out of 4 pilots tucked it between their legs and voted yes. It is amazing too, in the crew lounges across America, I could never find anyone that voted yes to actually have a discussion with them to try and figure out why (everyone has their reasons for voting yes or no) and yet 75% of the voting populous, voted yes.

My issue is that when the union sends a survey out asking if the color they see is either A: black or B: white, there is no spot to click grey or any other color, so you gotta pick one of their answers.
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Old 11-03-2018, 10:23 AM
  #34  
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I can't imagine that your current job will work you nearly as hard as any of the places you are considering. I'd have never chosen NetJets back in the day if I knew what I know now. You might not fly all that many hours at fractional, but it is the whipping you take from long duty days, short overnights, and the body clock beatdowns from starting early and late and then early again, etc.

That said, as much as most complain and slag on NetJets, it can be a good job if you can stay away from the negativity that surrounds you. No fault fatigue language and refusing to fly broken airplanes can make it much better, but most just complain and press on (fools). It is also much better in the Global or Gulfstream as far as quality of life go- almost nobody tries to leave from these fleats so those who slag on the company have no first hand experience how good it can be for those who are senior enough to get it. My personal situation makes it the best choice for me to stay, but I'd imagine that the majority would be better served at the airlines of they can get hired. I know at least 2 NJA SICs who were hired at Alaska Airlines without college degrees. Good luck whatever you decide.

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Old 11-05-2018, 03:52 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Ifly4u2c View Post
I am an ATP, currently at around 2400TT, flying a Galaxy (G-200) in the NY area ( TEB, HPN, MMU, FRG ) making 65k with a scheduled 20k increase in the next few months. Due to many factor ( one of them salary, and lack of a set schedule ) I am looking at the next step. Have over 1300 hours in jets, EMB505 and G200, which about 300 are PIC.

wondering what you would do if you where in my shoes. Stay where I am, or maybe move to FlexJet, XO Jets or even try my luck at Netjets.

I live 30 Min from TEB, I am looking for stability and a job to keep me happy for a good while. I don't care much about upgrade, I care about money, having a possibility of making some serious soft money, is a plus.

TIA
Netjets seems pretty cool, have never been at a company that will pay all this insurance for nothing, if LTD fails they will step in and pay it at 60% themselves. No cost life insurance, no cost healthcare, Dental (Braces) and Vision. No one is doing that, that's a $1100 a month package at Delta. If they are a little under in pay they are making up in benefits and Berkshire just made $7 Billion in the third quarter so they got the legs!
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Old 11-07-2018, 08:17 PM
  #36  
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Is the APC page on FlexJet pretty accurate? It shows most junior captain hired in 2006. I know a guy that has been there for almost two years and says he “close” to upgrade. Also he claims that top Captains at Flex Jet makes 280-300K per year, however that math didn’t seem to add up on Flex Jets APC Page.
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Old 11-08-2018, 02:15 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Halon1211 View Post
Is the APC page on FlexJet pretty accurate? It shows most junior captain hired in 2006. I know a guy that has been there for almost two years and says he “close” to upgrade. Also he claims that top Captains at Flex Jet makes 280-300K per year, however that math didn’t seem to add up on Flex Jets APC Page.


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Old 11-08-2018, 02:57 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Halon1211 View Post
Is the APC page on FlexJet pretty accurate? It shows most junior captain hired in 2006. I know a guy that has been there for almost two years and says he “close” to upgrade. Also he claims that top Captains at Flex Jet makes 280-300K per year, however that math didn’t seem to add up on Flex Jets APC Page.
DS was hired in 2000
CW was hired in 2001
Congratulations!!
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Old 11-20-2018, 05:21 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Halon1211 View Post
Is the APC page on FlexJet pretty accurate? It shows most junior captain hired in 2006. I know a guy that has been there for almost two years and says he “close” to upgrade. Also he claims that top Captains at Flex Jet makes 280-300K per year, however that math didn’t seem to add up on Flex Jets APC Page.
I put off answering this because management has been promising new pay scales, improved workrules and better benefits. They are now three weeks past their self imposed deadline for announcing those changes. So I'm going to post what we currently have. I'll update it if they ever do announce changes.
The most junior captain who upgraded in seniority order (International Large Cabin or "ILC" positions are interview only, more on that later) was hired 8-2-2007 and his initials are CN. Pilots who haven't reached two full years, like your friend, have 80-100 pilots ahead of them for upgrade. Currently we are upgrading about 6 FOs per month, however CN is 70% down the seniority list. Traditionally we have about 60% captains. In order for a pilot hired today to get his management advertised "Three Year Upgrade", we will have to upgrade 6.2 FOs per month for the next 33 months. There are 207 FOs ahead of our hypothetical 3 year captain.
The 6 junior captains who interviewed for the ILC positions are a bit of a mystery. We have a lot of pilots with extensive international experience who signed up and were told they wouldn't even get an interview because "you are not qualified". The junior pilots who were hired have, for the most part, zero experience. So what management's requirements are is anyone's guess. For pay, see my next post...
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Old 11-21-2018, 08:13 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Halon1211 View Post
Is the APC page on FlexJet pretty accurate? It shows most junior captain hired in 2006. I know a guy that has been there for almost two years and says he “close” to upgrade. Also he claims that top Captains at Flex Jet makes 280-300K per year, however that math didn’t seem to add up on Flex Jets APC Page.
Here's the second part of the answer to your question about pay structure at Flexjet currently.
We have eight different tiers. That's right, eight. If you've read about and thought the B scale was crazy back in the day, buckle up!
First officers have two pay scales, neither of which are even close to the standard of 60% of captains pay. The first is based on the 8/7 fixed schedule and it is $294 per day at year one. You will fly 192 days the first year. The variable (PBS) schedule is based on 202 days of flying and it is $355. Flying 10 less days in a year costs you $66 per day? And that is 44% of Red Label pay for fixed and just 53% for the PBS. At year five the percentages get marginally better. 53% of red label for fixed and 62% for PBS. At year 9 it's nearly equal. 52% for fixed and 53% for PBS. There are NO raises from year 5-9. And NO raises from year 10-12. Consider the actual seniority of the most junior captain and you will see the problem with no raises during these years.
Why would a new hire pick the fixed schedule? Well, if you don't live in one of the five main bases, you will be assigned an 8 on 4 off 8 on schedule at some point. It is possible to get this schedule at the end of one bid period and the beginning of the next. So you will have 8/4/8/4/8/4/8 all in a row. Some will tell you this is rare, but one of our VPs recently sent an email update stating that the number one complaint he gets is about these long assignments at the out bases. So we know it does happen.
There are 5 captain scales.
The Lear/Phenom scales are fixed and PBS, as are the Challenger 300 scales. So 4 different pay scales for two different types.
For the Lear/Phenom, captains start out at 67% of red label pay at year one. By year 12 they are Up to 76% of red label pay. There are no raises after year twelve, so by year 18 they are down to 62% of red label captain pay. The fixed schedule is even worse.
Regular Challenger captains fair somewhat better. Year one is 75% of red label pay, and by year 18, they have only dropped to about 72%. Keep in mind, management fully expects the same amount of work from each pilot. It's only the rewards that are arbitrary, divisive and unfair.
As far as the $300k red label captain, there are a few. 18 year red label pay is $1090 per day. If you work 225 days, count your per died as income and get some bonus money, it is possible to reach $300k. But it is far less common than the 8/4/8 schedule assignments. Sorry for the long posts, but this is the reality of pay today. Management says they are going to make positive changes to pay, benefits and workrules. I am hopeful they will happen sooner rather than later.
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