Originally Posted by Blutarsky (Post 2712050)

Here's the second part of the answer to your question about pay structure at Flexjet currently.
We have eight different tiers. That's right, eight. If you've read about and thought the B scale was crazy back in the day, buckle up!
First officers have two pay scales, neither of which are even close to the standard of 60% of captains pay. The first is based on the 8/7 fixed schedule and it is $294 per day at year one. You will fly 192 days the first year. The variable (PBS) schedule is based on 202 days of flying and it is $355. Flying 10 less days in a year costs you $66 per day? And that is 44% of Red Label pay for fixed and just 53% for the PBS. At year five the percentages get marginally better. 53% of red label for fixed and 62% for PBS. At year 9 it's nearly equal. 52% for fixed and 53% for PBS. There are NO raises from year 5-9. And NO raises from year 10-12. Consider the actual seniority of the most junior captain and you will see the problem with no raises during these years.
Why would a new hire pick the fixed schedule? Well, if you don't live in one of the five main bases, you will be assigned an 8 on 4 off 8 on schedule at some point. It is possible to get this schedule at the end of one bid period and the beginning of the next. So you will have 8/4/8/4/8/4/8 all in a row. Some will tell you this is rare, but one of our VPs recently sent an email update stating that the number one complaint he gets is about these long assignments at the out bases. So we know it does happen.
There are 5 captain scales.
The Lear/Phenom scales are fixed and PBS, as are the Challenger 300 scales. So 4 different pay scales for two different types.
For the Lear/Phenom, captains start out at 67% of red label pay at year one. By year 12 they are Up to 76% of red label pay. There are no raises after year twelve, so by year 18 they are down to 62% of red label captain pay. The fixed schedule is even worse.
Regular Challenger captains fair somewhat better. Year one is 75% of red label pay, and by year 18, they have only dropped to about 72%. Keep in mind, management fully expects the same amount of work from each pilot. It's only the rewards that are arbitrary, divisive and unfair.
As far as the $300k red label captain, there are a few. 18 year red label pay is $1090 per day. If you work 225 days, count your per died as income and get some bonus money, it is possible to reach $300k. But it is far less common than the 8/4/8 schedule assignments. Sorry for the long posts, but this is the reality of pay today. Management says they are going to make positive changes to pay, benefits and workrules. I am hopeful they will happen sooner rather than later.

Originally Posted by OhSnapAF (Post 2698999)

I’ll give you some advice. Once the allure of not knowing where you are going wears off, you will just look at your paycheck and days off like everyone else in this industry, and if you are at a place like NJA instead of an airline, you will become depressed.

Originally Posted by JohnBurke (Post 2716588)

Really?

When does that kick in?

35 years in the business now, and I don't see it that way. After 40 years? 45? When does that pragmatic pessimism finally drive home such that one becomes another drone. I'd like to know, so I can get out one year prior.

Originally Posted by JohnBurke (Post 2716588)

Really?

When does that kick in?

Originally Posted by Guard (Post 2716567)

UNITED is down the road from you at EWR, they are hiring people with little to no PIC, at 100K first year coming its a no brainer, $140 second year. Living where you work is key!

Originally Posted by Learflyer (Post 2716621)

Oh just like that? Just knock on their door and start class on Monday?

Originally Posted by OhSnapAF (Post 2716615)

Oh if you still get a child’s grin on your face when they tell you you’re going to some podunk airport with a truck stop hotel by the highway, more power to ya...

Originally Posted by JohnBurke (Post 2716758)

I'm still happy when I go to work, and I still love to fly, yes.

I'm happy when I get a dispatch to some podunk tree in some podunk forest that exists as a set of coordinates on a map, and satisfied by the smell of smoke in the cockpit. I don't mind a bit going to work, and I enjoy coming home. I've never liked to travel, but I do like to fly.

And yeah, I've done a lot of small towns that were tiny enough that not even the truck stop carried a used paperback. Not a problem. Send me again.

It's not a child's grin. I'm not a child. I've been doing this a long time. Been around the block and around the world a few times. For decades. It hasn't grown old. I don't expect it to. It's comfortable, familiar. If someone is sick of it after two years, they're in for a sorry life.

When does that sad outlook kick in again? Past the fourth decade, or beyond?

When did yours start?

Originally Posted by OhSnapAF (Post 2699925)

True, but they also back people that should be canned without question.