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NetJets new Contract

Old 12-08-2018, 08:58 AM
  #381  
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Originally Posted by OhSnapAF View Post
I would also argue that you shouldn't have to fatigue because your schedule is too intense. Fatiguing should be a result of having an external factor effect your ability to fly, not the flying/schedule its self. You shouldn't have to fatigue to feel like a human being, or to eat, or to get a normal amount of time off during a tour.
I agree completely. But that's where we are now. And this TA is going to "fix" it by throwing money at pilots who push it but not doing anything to stop the madness of our scheduling. Amazing.
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Old 12-08-2018, 09:15 AM
  #382  
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Originally Posted by Finny McCool View Post
More like thirty years of representation. Longer than companies like Jetblue and Spirit have been in existence. Ten year contracts don't help either.
I wouldn’t call anything prior to Strong Union anything more than “technical and legal representation”.

A band of 5 “Union guys” for the years prior is not what became NJASAP while bargaining the last 13 years.

But you know that.
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Old 12-08-2018, 09:19 AM
  #383  
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Originally Posted by David Puddy View Post
Question: are the incoming Longitudes basically replacing outgoing Xs and Sovereigns? Will there be any net new seats with the Longitudes? I guess that partly depends on executed order numbers too for Netjets USA vs Netjets Europe.

Friend said he saw a Longitude in the Netjets hanger recently. Impressive airplane.
Latitudes are for replacing XL/XLS and then growth.

Longitude replaces X and Soverign and then growth.

Pushing for 500 frames next year in NJA.
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Old 12-08-2018, 09:27 AM
  #384  
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Originally Posted by Retractable View Post
I don’t think that anyone is “settling” at NetJets.

That’s why wages alone have increased literally tenfold in a period of 13 years.

The majors have literally decades upon decades of collective bargaining products in their contracts.

NJA pilots... 13 years.

Let that sink in for a minute.


It’s only possible to add so much value to a CBA at a time before one actually does risk choking the revenue.

Everyone is settling unless you live in podunk county WV or someplace like that. But that subjective so it’s hard to quantify.

10 fold?!? You must live in one of those canibas states as there is no way you can say that with evidence. Year 1 in 2005 contract paid what 42K a year for the flex schedule? Now it’s like what 81K for the 76CC? Broken down in a day rate that would be 233 a day in 2005 compared to 355 a day. Throw in cost of living adjustment and in 2018 dollars that’s 301 a day now so it’s an increase of 54 bucks a day or 15.2 percent in adjusted numbers.

So in 13 years you have increased pay 15.2 percent on year one rates for what? Medical after retirement till SS age? Nope GONE. HBAs for all, well you got that with this new TA but you had it before 2005 contract but gave it up. You see the shell game they are playing? Take one away and give it back to you and give you a little raise. I can go on and on but you will not listen that is a fact.
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Old 12-08-2018, 09:47 AM
  #385  
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Originally Posted by tm602 View Post
I agree completely. But that's where we are now. And this TA is going to "fix" it by throwing money at pilots who push it but not doing anything to stop the madness of our scheduling. Amazing.
Well it won't fix scheduling language. Either pilots will make more money like they think they will (doubt it) or fatigues will drop in hopes of making more money (likely) which will dilute daily hours flown over a greater number of pilots. The size of the pie doesn't change, there will just be more people taking slices.

The guys that push it will push it harder, the guys that fatigue will likely fly tired. I don't think anyone will be surprised if an accident occurs at NJA as a result of this.
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Old 12-08-2018, 09:56 AM
  #386  
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Originally Posted by Peloton View Post
Everyone is settling unless you live in podunk county WV or someplace like that. But that subjective so it’s hard to quantify.

10 fold?!? You must live in one of those canibas states as there is no way you can say that with evidence. Year 1 in 2005 contract paid what 42K a year for the flex schedule? Now it’s like what 81K for the 76CC? Broken down in a day rate that would be 233 a day in 2005 compared to 355 a day. Throw in cost of living adjustment and in 2018 dollars that’s 301 a day now so it’s an increase of 54 bucks a day or 15.2 percent in adjusted numbers.

So in 13 years you have increased pay 15.2 percent on year one rates for what? Medical after retirement till SS age? Nope GONE. HBAs for all, well you got that with this new TA but you had it before 2005 contract but gave it up. You see the shell game they are playing? Take one away and give it back to you and give you a little raise. I can go on and on but you will not listen that is a fact.
In 2007 year 1 FO pay 7/7 was 56k a year. In 2018 that works out to 68k with inflation so as of today, the pay hasn't even kept up with inflation. That will change with the IBI but won't be measurable as the base salaries stay the same.
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Old 12-08-2018, 10:49 AM
  #387  
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It’s Stockhom Syndrome, simple as that.
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Old 12-08-2018, 10:50 AM
  #388  
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Originally Posted by Retractable View Post
I wouldn’t call anything prior to Strong Union anything more than “technical and legal representation”.

A band of 5 “Union guys” for the years prior is not what became NJASAP while bargaining the last 13 years.

But you know that.
UPS was IBT too before they went independent. It only took them a couple of contracts to go from worst to first. You should never sign a super long contract, but if you did it could only be justified under a mature contract, which NJA still doesn't have. In between IBBs are garbage.
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Old 12-08-2018, 12:13 PM
  #389  
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Originally Posted by 55555 View Post
Calling fatigued beyond 12.1 hours WILL impact your W2 now. Both the company and the union traded safety for money/productivity in this deal. IDK who is the bigger hypocrite.
No it won't!! It might impact the extra flight pay for the day. But with a fatigue call, the company can now schedule you further out the next day. Trust me when I tell you that even when I fatigue, the company gets a LOT of flight time the next day. When I fatigue, I usually end up getting a later day the next day, filled with flying. So it's a fallacy that fatiguing will negatively impact the over 12.1 pay. I'm sure it will happen sometimes. But on the whole, it won't matter.
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Old 12-08-2018, 12:19 PM
  #390  
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Originally Posted by GeeWizDriver View Post
TM was talking about how silly the meal deviation program is.

If you call in fatigued just to have time to use your meal deviation, you’ll probably get fired.
Nope. When you "fatigue," you don't have to give a diatribe about why. You call them and say, "I'm fatigued." They say, "okay. When do you want to show tomorrow?" That's it. And nobody is following you around ordering you to go to stay in your hotel room.
NOBODY has been fired at NJA for calling in fatigued. And nobody I know abuses the policy.
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