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Old 02-27-2019, 08:24 AM
  #751  
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Never defended, only commented on what happened. You really need to work on not putting words into people's mouths. It's a bit too...millennial of you.

Since you asked though, downgrades would have helped the company financially for sure but staffing is based on bodies needed, not what they are making. Even if the company had downgraded to a 60/40 ratio, they still had the staffing needed to cover the flying during the downturn. My opinion on that has no bearing on how these things work.
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Old 02-27-2019, 11:03 AM
  #752  
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Originally Posted by GeeWizDriver View Post
It won't be much longer before all we can get to show up is Retired Reggie, Donnie Deeyoueye, and Scotty Snotnose.
LMAO

Good one
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Old 02-27-2019, 11:06 AM
  #753  
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Originally Posted by Flyfalcons View Post
Never defended, only commented on what happened. You really need to work on not putting words into people's mouths. It's a bit too...millennial of you.
No, I think millennial would be supporting unnecessary upgrades because you "deserve" it.
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Old 02-27-2019, 11:06 AM
  #754  
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Originally Posted by AntiPeter View Post
Phenom
350-400 block per year (7/7 or CC60 sched)
Less than 5% of time
60-70% before IBI18
20% before IBI18
I'm 7/7 in the Latitude and agree with those numbers, although I've seen an increase in the number of 10 hrs on, 14 off since IBI. I was 350ish flight time for the prior 12 months. Since November I've been holding 370-375 hrs for the prior 12 months.
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Old 02-27-2019, 11:10 AM
  #755  
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Originally Posted by mooneymite View Post
Pretty simple solution. Do what the airline unions did long ago: negotiate duty rigs. 2 hours duty time=one hour of flight time (for example) whether you were in a plane, or not. 3 3/4 hours away from home=1 hour of flight time (for example) whether you fly, or not.
Duty rigs, trip rigs, TAFB etc. are fantastic and can add up to several hours of extra pay a month. It prevents scheduling from doing horrendous things and pay protections are great as well. If a flight cancels, it should be pay protected. It would prevent mass changes throughout the day and put more pressure on management/scheduling to stop trying to put square pegs in round holes.

Needless to say management would never go for it.
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Old 02-27-2019, 07:04 PM
  #756  
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Originally Posted by germanaviator View Post
This all sounds pretty familiar from the other side of the pond.

I wonder if we shouldn't get paid by duty time. That would give scheduling the incentive to make productive plans that don't burn duty time unnecessarily.

But since block hours are the current measure for extra pay at NJA (and proposed at NJE) can you guys tell me how many hours per year are normal for a NJA pilot. Anti Peter gave me a 350-400 number for the Phenom (thanks by the way). Does that sound about right to most guys, including other fleets?

Thanks
The Phenom, Latitude and CL350 fleets are exceedingly busy here in the States. What are you seeing for those fleets in Europe? Are certain fleets busier than others?
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Old 02-28-2019, 04:03 AM
  #757  
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Originally Posted by OhSnapAF View Post
Needless to say management would never go for it.
Airline management didn't like it either. Management said duty rigs would drive the airline into bankruptcy....

Industry standard now. Too bad NetJets isn't part of the industry, right?

Duty rigs force the airlines to pay pilots for their time (not just flight time). It's up to management to decide what to do with that pilot time. Our utilization/efficiency is not under our control. We should not be deprived of flight pay when management decides to keep us in a hotel for 7 days.
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Old 02-28-2019, 04:43 AM
  #758  
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Originally Posted by germanaviator View Post
This all sounds pretty familiar from the other side of the pond.

I wonder if we shouldn't get paid by duty time. That would give scheduling the incentive to make productive plans that don't burn duty time unnecessarily.

But since block hours are the current measure for extra pay at NJA (and proposed at NJE) can you guys tell me how many hours per year are normal for a NJA pilot. Anti Peter gave me a 350-400 number for the Phenom (thanks by the way). Does that sound about right to most guys, including other fleets?

Thanks
Can you explain the QOL and work rules at NJE? I've always been interested but never had the chance to get more information on how life is for our brothers in Europe.
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Old 02-28-2019, 09:13 AM
  #759  
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Originally Posted by mooneymite View Post
Airline management didn't like it either. Management said duty rigs would drive the airline into bankruptcy....

Industry standard now. Too bad NetJets isn't part of the industry, right?

Duty rigs force the airlines to pay pilots for their time (not just flight time). It's up to management to decide what to do with that pilot time. Our utilization/efficiency is not under our control. We should not be deprived of flight pay when management decides to keep us in a hotel for 7 days.
It is nice that the airlines are in this contract and work rule rat race that one airline can piggy back off another. At the end of the day though, NJA pilots can get whatever they are willing to fight for, but this IBI has proven that they will just accept what NJASAP gives them. The last two CBA votes that NJASAP has sent to the pilot group have been positively received by a large majority both times. How long did it take for 3 out of 4 people to vote yes, to it being called POSTA lol...
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Old 02-28-2019, 12:04 PM
  #760  
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Just to be clear, you said straight salary is a terrible way to pay pilots, so NJA introduces more incentive for flight hours, but it's a terrible contract for the pilot group.
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