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Old 12-12-2018, 01:44 PM
  #471  
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Originally Posted by Guard View Post
Look at American's DCA 320 schedule, junior guy get 5R/2off/4R and then 4 off to turn into a 6 day reserve block, United international is pretty much all 6 day reserve on the 6-400, 77 is 6-7 day blocks for some at EWR for ASIA, wide bodies don't get used much though I'm told, I get all this from guys I fly with in the reserves, seems your a hater, lighten up and enjoy your major job, we are all happy to be here, ticket to my house is worth unlimited amount of money a year for me not to sit in a crash pad, wait on some commuter to cancel my commute home, my wife makes 3X what I make so moving is not an option for us. What I see here and what I didn't see at CAL before I was furloughed is that these people generally get making the face of the company employees happy will be reflected to the owners. CAL and that fat slob Kellner gave two sh!ts about the employees and I was happy to look at a customer and say "not my job or my problem, good luck"! Sounds like the last CEO here was like that, but the guys here, most have been here since late 1990's and 2000's think its getting better? This works for me.
Dude reserves at the majors get the same amount of time off as NJA pilots on the 76 day on the narrow body side lol. Literally just asked two different people at UAL and one at DAL. 12 days off on reserve. Is that commutable? No. Do I fully understand that you have no desire to commute to reserve? Hell ya I do! More power to ya, but you and several other furloughed airline pilots paint a picture of the airline industry in 2003, not in almost 2019. The industry is different now, and it will continue to get better from a pilot standpoint in the future. You don't have to paint some artificially worse case airline industry scenario, and bend and twist the NJA lifestyle to make it better than it is. You hate commuting, I get it, that alone for some people would make the same decision you did, and I fully understand and respect that. Some NJA pilots continue to live with their heads in the clouds, and for 15 years have been saying "good things are coming, just wait" and they keep waiting waiting waiting. If you are happy with the NJA now, and it doesn't get worse, I think you will stay happy there. The problem comes when you want and expect what they tell you, and it doesn't get delivered. I know several in my new hire class were given false expectations even back in the day, and that never came true. The false hopes crap needs to stop.

If you think NJA is different than any airline from a management standpoint you are blindly and severely mistaken. NJA was a dumpster fire financially which resulted in a massive 7 year furlough. Some of those financial issues have been fixed but NJA management has no vision for the future. You are a means to and end for NJA, nothing more. Middle management will take care of you but upper management only appeases you because the metal won't move without you. If you think NJASAP has your best interest in mind, you are also mistaken in that area. They are a good old boys club that pat themselves on the back whenever they get an inch from management, and cower to them every chance they get.
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Old 12-12-2018, 02:27 PM
  #472  
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Originally Posted by OhSnapAF View Post
Dude reserves at the majors get the same amount of time off as NJA pilots on the 76 day on the narrow body side lol. Literally just asked two different people at UAL and one at DAL. 12 days off on reserve. Is that commutable? No. Do I fully understand that you have no desire to commute to reserve? Hell ya I do! More power to ya, but you and several other furloughed airline pilots paint a picture of the airline industry in 2003, not in almost 2019. The industry is different now, and it will continue to get better from a pilot standpoint in the future. You don't have to paint some artificially worse case airline industry scenario, and bend and twist the NJA lifestyle to make it better than it is. You hate commuting, I get it, that alone for some people would make the same decision you did, and I fully understand and respect that. Some NJA pilots continue to live with their heads in the clouds, and for 15 years have been saying "good things are coming, just wait" and they keep waiting waiting waiting. If you are happy with the NJA now, and it doesn't get worse, I think you will stay happy there. The problem comes when you want and expect what they tell you, and it doesn't get delivered. I know several in my new hire class were given false expectations even back in the day, and that never came true. The false hopes crap needs to stop.

If you think NJA is different than any airline from a management standpoint you are blindly and severely mistaken. NJA was a dumpster fire financially which resulted in a massive 7 year furlough. Some of those financial issues have been fixed but NJA management has no vision for the future. You are a means to and end for NJA, nothing more. Middle management will take care of you but upper management only appeases you because the metal won't move without you. If you think NJASAP has your best interest in mind, you are also mistaken in that area. They are a good old boys club that pat themselves on the back whenever they get an inch from management, and cower to them every chance they get.
I could not agree with this post more, I got burned at the majors, ALPA has never saved a job in the 121 world and their guys make a lot more money to play golf with management and other BS than any other union outside the IAM and UAW. NJA won't ever have 3 billion in bag fees but thats also the problem for the majors, one drops them in a recession, they all gotta drop them and then wow, you only make $100 million instead of a billion, puzzle games! I think another consolation is actually coming next recession which looks like its around the corner! I wish all the majors good luck, I really do, my dad was Eastern and it sucked during the strike and him having to start over at another airline, plus I got a bunch of 27 year old Lt's who work for me in the reserves who have been hired at DAL and UAL with no PIC time at all, they make more than me and I make them buy me lunch and beers every time I see them! One is a Mad Dog Capt at 12 months at DAL, 28 year old DAL Captain. Fly the line safe guys, I think we've killed this one!

Last edited by Guard; 12-12-2018 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 12-12-2018, 06:58 PM
  #473  
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Originally Posted by Guard View Post
I got burned at the majors,

Really? ... One would never logically come to that conclusion from reading your posts.



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Old 12-13-2018, 05:30 AM
  #474  
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Originally Posted by Peloton View Post
Wait a sec. It’s day time so my math may be more correct here but a new hire on 7/7 makes 26 tours of work

26-2(vacation after year 1 but okay) -2(training) =22

22 x 12.1= 266.2

Now this guy claimed flight time of 270-320 hours a year right? Let’s split it an call it the average of 300.

300-266.2=33.8 eligible for extra pay
33.8 x 118= 3988.40 extra pay
3988 + 62563 (year 1 7/7)= 66551 total

So according to my math that pilot who magically gets hired, bids and is given the 7/7 year one with 2 weeks vacation and NOT using PTO at all would be at 66551 not 95-100K. This of course is average and is based on assumptions but I find it hard to believe any union member would advocate the belief that one could add 50 percent to total pay on year 1.

The TA will pass. It will not amount to much after a year in pilot pay as NJA learns and adapts to the different work rules.
Your math is based on a static business demand at NetJets ergo, wrong.

Sales is currently throttled back to protect the quality of product and as soon as the IBI18 crew/aircraft utilization model is understood, increased sales to accommodate the “low hanging fruit” will recommence. Fleet growth will continue throughout the teething process.

IBI will be a significant pay increase for all pilots while NetJeta is poised to be forward facing to accommodate strong sales and demand for our services.
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Old 12-13-2018, 05:36 AM
  #475  
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Originally Posted by Guard View Post
I could not agree with this post more, I got burned at the majors, ALPA has never saved a job in the 121 world and their guys make a lot more money to play golf with management and other BS than any other union outside the IAM and UAW. NJA won't ever have 3 billion in bag fees but thats also the problem for the majors, one drops them in a recession, they all gotta drop them and then wow, you only make $100 million instead of a billion, puzzle games! I think another consolation is actually coming next recession which looks like its around the corner! I wish all the majors good luck, I really do, my dad was Eastern and it sucked during the strike and him having to start over at another airline, plus I got a bunch of 27 year old Lt's who work for me in the reserves who have been hired at DAL and UAL with no PIC time at all, they make more than me and I make them buy me lunch and beers every time I see them! One is a Mad Dog Capt at 12 months at DAL, 28 year old DAL Captain. Fly the line safe guys, I think we've killed this one!
Bingo!

Spirit, Fontier, JetBlue and Alaska in the next round.

Without a doubt.

After that round, Flying the Line Part 4 will be written. 3 was post 9/11 to present day.
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Old 12-13-2018, 07:43 AM
  #476  
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Originally Posted by Retractable View Post
Bingo!

Spirit, Fontier, JetBlue and Alaska in the next round.

Without a doubt.

After that round, Flying the Line Part 4 will be written. 3 was post 9/11 to present day.
In the next round lol. Luckily your career has proven you have no ability to predict anything that occurs in the industry, and you have been wrong about all your predictions at NJA. Shouldn't you be on some AOPA forum recruiting CFIs to work at NJA by telling them year 3 FOs can make 200k?
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Old 12-13-2018, 07:46 AM
  #477  
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Originally Posted by Retractable View Post
Your math is based on a static business demand at NetJets ergo, wrong.

Sales is currently throttled back to protect the quality of product and as soon as the IBI18 crew/aircraft utilization model is understood, increased sales to accommodate the “low hanging fruit” will recommence. Fleet growth will continue throughout the teething process.

IBI will be a significant pay increase for all pilots while NetJeta is poised to be forward facing to accommodate strong sales and demand for our services.
Yep and when the recession hits, NetJets will be hit even harder with this IBI business model. How many will be furloughed this time? 800? Going back to 2001 hires?
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Old 12-13-2018, 10:54 AM
  #478  
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Originally Posted by OhSnapAF View Post
Yep and when the recession hits, NetJets will be hit even harder with this IBI business model. How many will be furloughed this time? 800? Going back to 2001 hires?
I really hope that there aren't furloughs at the next downturn. You've got guys who have 10+ years and are still in the bottom ~10% of the company. They already spent enough time on the street during the 495 years.
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Old 12-13-2018, 11:45 AM
  #479  
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Originally Posted by pugpilot View Post
I really hope that there aren't furloughs at the next downturn. You've got guys who have 10+ years and are still in the bottom ~10% of the company. They already spent enough time on the street during the 495 years.
I don’t either. Retractable, and people like him, want the airline industry to suffer because they were burned. What a hilariously vindictive attitude to have after 16 years at NJA, but I would expect nothing less from him.

But to pretend like NJA isn’t funded by Wall Street bonuses, dot com money, and can’t be flipped right on its butt like 2008 is downright hysterical.
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Old 12-13-2018, 01:37 PM
  #480  
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Originally Posted by OhSnapAF View Post
In the next round lol. Luckily your career has proven you have no ability to predict anything that occurs in the industry, and you have been wrong about all your predictions at NJA. Shouldn't you be on some AOPA forum recruiting CFIs to work at NJA by telling them year 3 FOs can make 200k?



🤘🏿

How’s IOE?

WHEN the next downturn occurs, I’ll be happy to be right where I am.

Not in my middle ages and flying as a CFI because I got furloughed.
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