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Old 07-10-2019, 12:27 PM   #311  
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NJA FO can potentially make double what a WU FO makes first year as well as a first year CA from what I see to work a lot less.
OK...I was wondering what was being called a competitor.
I was thinking more long the lines of other operators running mainly a turbo-prop fleet like EAS or the likes; not the NJA, XOJet operators and such.
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Old 07-11-2019, 04:46 AM   #312  
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OK...I was wondering what was being called a competitor.
I was thinking more long the lines of other operators running mainly a turbo-prop fleet like EAS or the likes; not the NJA, XOJet operators and such.
I think L3 is running 350's at about $200K a year if you can get a security clearance
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Old 07-11-2019, 05:17 AM   #313  
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I think L3 is running 350's at about $200K a year if you can get a security clearance
I think you are right - but of course that sort of specialized job (and all that comes with it) wasn't what I was considering competitors either to WUP.

When I'm a recurrent an listening to the WUP guys; they seem to be pretty happy with the position. We can all find things that we wish were better, but considering how unhappy many seem to be, it is refreshing to see some appreciate the job even if they are continuing to look up the ladder for the career going forward.

It seems that many on this board specifically think that every job ought to be a final destination - in all thing aviation related. It just isn't that way and if you think that way then I can certainly see why some spend so much time angry at the 'system'. People often compare an aviation career to medicine and Law. Well...you don't step into a career destination job right out of training in those fields either.

For those at WUP. Continue to try and improve the situation for those coming behind you. Keep your eyes forward while you decide where you want your career to take you, but congrats on the work already done and here's hoping to continued success.
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Old 07-11-2019, 08:27 AM   #314  
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I think L3 is running 350's at about $200K a year if you can get a security clearance
I’ve flown with a few guys who bailed from L3 to come to Gama.
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Old 07-11-2019, 10:48 AM   #315  
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This.

WUP execs have said that they aren't leaving Gama. However, the contract renews every year. I doubt anything will change during the contract period, but WUP has the opportunity to walk away from Gama every year. Everyone saying it would be impossible to switch operators is wrong. It would certainly be challenging, but with planning, doable. If WUP was serious about staying with Gama long term, they would sign a multi year contract. Until then, we are only safe (sort of) for a year at a time.

My biggest concern currently is can Gama retain crews. We are losing a lot of pilots recently from what I've heard. Some going to the majors, but I think most going to better compensating competitors. Is WUP willing to negotiate with Gama to increase the compensation package in some way to keep pilots here? Or now that they have their own certificate that they have more control over, will Gama be seen as disposable if costs are deemed too high and thus Gama loses the ability to negotiate?
I'm sure Wheels Up has a plan. The problem is nobody knows what it is. You stated that there is a big turnover right now, which if true would mean a reduction in compensation would be a suicide mission. More probable is that they are working behind the scenes to establish their own certificate or looking to aquire an existing King Air operator with the 350 already on their opspecs. Cut out the middle man (ie. Gama)
That's just pure speculation on my part, but either way those aircraft need to fly every day and a major disruption to the system would be detrimental to the bottom line, and any subsequent IPO.
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Old 07-11-2019, 11:18 AM   #316  
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I'm sure Wheels Up has a plan. The problem is nobody knows what it is. You stated that there is a big turnover right now, which if true would mean a reduction in compensation would be a suicide mission. More probable is that they are working behind the scenes to establish their own certificate or looking to aquire an existing King Air operator with the 350 already on their opspecs. Cut out the middle man (ie. Gama)
That's just pure speculation on my part, but either way those aircraft need to fly every day and a major disruption to the system would be detrimental to the bottom line, and any subsequent IPO.
While the person will remain nameless. A supervisor has stated personally to me “there is a retention problem” and it’s amongst the most needed of pilots. Captains and instructors. No mention of the SIC retention rate but, one can assume it is very difficult to attract 1500 hour pilot over a regional carrier offering top bonuses.
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Old 07-11-2019, 06:08 PM   #317  
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While the person will remain nameless. A supervisor has stated personally to me “there is a retention problem” and it’s amongst the most needed of pilots. Captains and instructors. No mention of the SIC retention rate but, one can assume it is very difficult to attract 1500 hour pilot over a regional carrier offering top bonuses.
Well, how about they pay pilots better? It’s called arrogance! I know a guy who recently accepted a part 91 job as a Lear 60 Capt for $185K with a very good schedule. Another guy with a Gulfstream rating (relatively new type) just accepted a GIV/V FO position (Part 135) in the NE for $175K.

This is a pilots’ market if you have the time/ratings and if you know how to negotiate!!!!
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Old 07-12-2019, 02:48 AM   #318  
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The amount of jobs in the 250 to 300 plus range are increasing as they should in order to keep the people who might desire to make said amount at a major.
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Old 07-12-2019, 07:04 AM   #319  
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I’ve flown with a few guys who bailed from L3 to come to Gama.
I believe that, hard to be in the desert for 200+ days a year!
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