Flyfalcons

Yes. Your responsibility is to get to your base by the briefed time on day 1. Company takes over from there.

Retractable

That being said... there’s a ton of bases.

Here’s what’s listed for bases on the APC NJA profile...

DOMICILES
BED
ATL
AUS
BDL
BTV
BUF
BWI
CHS
CLE
CLT
CMH
COS
CVG
DAL
DCA
DEN
DFW
DRO
DSM
DTW
ELP
EWR
BIL
BOI
BOS
GRR
GSO
GSP
HOU
HPN
IAD
FAR
FSD
GEG
ABQ
BHM
ICT
ILM
IND
JAC
JAN
JAX
LAS
LAX
LGA
LIT
MAF
MCI
MCO
MDW
MEM
MFR
MHT
MIA
MKE
MLI
MSY
OKC
OMA
MSP
PBI
PDX
ORF
PDK
BNA
PHL
PHX
PIT
PNS
PSP
PVD
PWM
RIC
RAP
RDU
RNO
ROC
RSW
SAN
ORD
SAT
SAV
SDF
SEA
SFO
SGF
SHV
SJC
SMF
SNA
STL
SYR
TEB
TLH
TPA
TUL
TUS
TYS
VNY

C2078

One of the best, if not the best feature of the job, no doubt. Oh, you forgot Hewitt’s DAB 😉

C2078

For the new folks or the potential new folks, this would be my advice. First of all, money isn’t everything, but, after doing a very comprehensive financial analysis this past week, man, the numbers are staggering. One simple example. I left as a
mid 40’s topped out Captain for Brown. Conducted a side by side analysis of retirement scenarios. One key item makes the comparison completely lopsided (from a financial point of view), the Defined Benefit (AKA the pension). When I retire at 65, counting on a slashed SS benefit (figuring 50% of what my benefit will be due to crooked politicians) and my pension, I will BARELY have to touch my 401k, should be able to withdraw only the interest generated, leaving my capital intact, if I so choose. I had a healthy 401k when I left NJ, but when you want to receive 75% of your pre retirement income during retirement (the minimum most financial planners recommend), the 401k will get depleted way more rapidly.

If under 40, a big 6 is the way to go (Fedex, Brown, SW, and the 3 Legacies), but especially Fedex and Brown. Walking away with a $100k/year pension is simply unmatched. If you can put in 30 years, Delta is a compelling job. The DC is about the same with others, but the PS and cash over cap will grow rapidly if you have enough time. All this assuming things are like they are today.

NJ has many good things, fly from home, decent pay, good benefits, interesting flying, etc. And some simply do not like the airlines, valid point. Even before I had started applying to Fedex and Brown, I had not done such a detailed analysis as the one done this week, including not only pay but the entire scope of the job. Pay for a new guy is not even remotely close, but for a Captain wanting to jump ship, no doubt that is a much harder decision. Schedule, well, that is also not remotely close. Not as far as days worked but as in manipulation. On 7/7 you have very limited options, on CC you pray to get your preferences. At Brown, I bid something fairly close to what I want and have high success trading/moving trips to fit my needs. Jumpseating is another invaluable element. Some
people like predictability, others love not knowing what they are doing in the next 24 hours, no right or wrong answer. I used to love winging it every day, not so much as I got older. I enjoy knowing I am going to have dinner at X restaurant in 2 weeks, for example. But this may not be important to some.

So for the new guys, if it’s money you are after, it’s not even a fair fight. If you are looking at other things such as not having to commute, very valid point!! But beware, I flew the Phenom (AKA Phlem) for a while, trust me, you DO NOT want to get stuck in that thing for 3+ years, and that is most likely where you will start, if you don’t fit out (yes, some have been getting other fleets, but plan for worst case scenario). You will develop hunchback syndrome 😳.

Posted on this thread as it pertains to potential job seekers.

Retractable

Your post really has zero to do with NetJets and should be moved by moderators.

C2078

It has everything to do with folks considering going to NetJets, or FO’s currently there, and the options available to them. You may not like what I wrote, but it is completely relevant to this thread. Suppressing information won’t change the facts.

Retractable

C2078,

I’ve said all along that I’m happy for any perceived success that a pilot experiences when leaving NetJets for greener pastures. I’ve also been in this business long enough to know that “greener” is a very subjective thing that time has ultimate control over.

A few thoughts to ponder.

1) UPS likes NetJets pilots. Everyone who they hired from NetJets worked somewhere else prior, yet those same pilots weren’t hired until now. The experience gained here is something UPS likes. Logically, your intent to steer prospective pilots FROM NetJets is steering them AWAY from UPS. If you believe UPS to be the end all be all of career destinations, why would you steer prospectives away in this manner?

2) Where do you think the robots will be installed first?

It certainly won’t be here at NetJets.

With all of the places we go and all of the service that is required by and expected by our Owners, no robot will ever replace us. Now THAT’S job security. UPS management tolerates the pilots. Actually, they hate you. The labor management relationship is toxic at UPS. The first chance they have to replace one pilot in the cockpit or both, they’ll be the first. Look at the drone division UPS just began... not only is it staffed and running, they went so far as to make news by showcasing female captains they’ve recruited for it (nothing against female pilots at all, but to make the news headline by showcasing that instead of drones is very creative). They WANT to make the news splash. They are drooling at the opportunity to replace that line item cost called labor.

Get that money while you can. If they half the pilots required with some enhanced auto flight system called Hal 2000, your upgrade will be short lived and your career earnings there greatly minimized.

C2078

I am pretty sure I mentioned big 6, not only UPS. Brown emphasized only because I have a bit better perspective.

Yes, management only has us because they need us, not because they like us. Having said that, do you think AJ, Alan, Sean actually care about you?

While I do think cargo will start single pilot and/or pilotless operations before pax, the one point not many people talk about is the type of aircraft the cargo world flies vs pax. Cargo tends to operate older planes, with decades old technologies, 2nd hand birds. Adapting these planes to single pilot/pilotless operation will be nearly impossible. Now, newer planes which are much more automated might be easier. We shall see!!

Again, my post was not meant to bash NJ, that is why I mentioned money isn’t everything. There are other intangibles that people value, which are completely legitimate. I do think people make better decisions when they have ALL the info in front of them. After that, you make it and live with it. I have no doubt I would be happy at NJ if still there (at least happier then when I left, I was miserable), questioned my decision big time first few months. Now looking back, one regret is not having started earlier pursuing this job.

NetJets seems to be doing well, on solid financial footing, having righted the ship after near collapse, many tough financial decisions had to be made. Very happy for my many friends still there. Potential new hires should have it pretty good going forward.

My only point, and this being a thread for potential new folks, look at ALL your options consider ALL the variables, don’t focus on just one element. Money, schedules and flexibility, commuting, aircraft, vacation, retirement, etc. Among the several points I was trying to make, and PURELY from a financial point of view, I stand by my opinion, mo comparison whatsoever. And from another point of view, aircraft (very high likelihood of getting assigned Phenom), I also stand by my opinion, as I do have direct knowledge, the plane is very uncomfortable and it was miserable. First airplane EVER I had to see a chiropractor on a consistent basis. I did several coast to coast trips with a stop mid country somewhere, 6:30-7 hours in the cockpit with a quick fuel stop, I was trash after. No way you do this, have a 10-11 hour rest period and right back at it. I personally had to fatigue after those days.

DH2time

some thoughts to ponder

1) NJA owes is success to a tax plan that is always evolving. The Bonus/Accelerated depreciation schedulers. The Capital Asset depreciation schedules, etc etc etc. NJA has its growth and it’s survival based on rich people being able to subsidize their “toys” on the back of the taxpayers. There is a greater chance of the tax law changing than ANY change to automation completely taking over the cockpit anytime soon. Current tax plan is unsustainable so it will change, the question is how much and what parts.

2) NJA has not demonstrated to anyone the ability to weather a financial downturn. They almost went under in 2009 with losses of almost 1B in one year. Since then things have improved but we are in the tail end of a growth cycle, it will change and then we will see if the untested NJA model will survive.

3.) Once Uncle Warren dies what happens to his empire? NJA stayed because Warren has a soft spot for aviation. It’s the glamour he craves in the industry. NJA is a laggard in his portfolio but he has been able to keep the investors at bay as he is Uncle Warren. Will Greg Able keep it? Who knows?

So much more to life than just money. I didn’t leave NJA cause of money, though the majors pay a TON more for the same amount of work. I left because of the toxic culture and the degrading QOL at NJA. I left because life is about enjoyment and for me NJA wasn’t cutting it. I post on here just to keep the Bartender honest, something he doesn’t like to do often enough.

NJA isn’t a bad job but it’s a tough career. It’s waking up at 0430 for a 0500 show then on duty for 11 hours only comprising of 2 legs. Loading bags, and don’t think you can buy off the rampers to do it all the time. Loading catering. Picking up after people. Emptying trash. Arranging fuel and toilet service etc etc etc. it isn’t hard but it’s time consuming and after day 6 you will be tired and irritable. Haven’t seen your wife and kids in a week. Now multiply that by 25 years, do you want to be doing it at age 65? That’s your choice and only your choice.

My point is don’t look at Bartenders jaded posts as the end all be all. It’s his perspective. He lucked out in a lot of ways. Bought his first 121 gig at Gulfstream, hired on at a major, furloughed (thus his bitterness), went to NJA during the hiring boom. Upgraded quickly and even got a super midsized cabin for a bit out of seniority order. It’s been a charmed life for him, well except the Philly speeding incident, but a charmed life for him at NJA.

Flyfalcons

Wow I had no idea that UPS pays more than NJA; thank you for shining a light on the truth - an answer to the question that no one thought to ask. I mean, of course the answer to a basing question at NJA is that UPS pilots get paid more. You just gotta think fourth dimensionally, Marty!