captfred

Those asshats need 709 rides right now.

Packrat

Except they're probably European.

Excargodog

Well, they didn’t make EVERY screw up possible. They did manage to miss the prohibited area over Bangor. Just dumb luck most likely.

germanaviator

Wow. Hold your horses, will ya.

Would all you guys who are quick to condemn the actions of these two guys be happy if the same happened to you after a mistake abroad (due to communications issues, on both sides(!) and not being as familiar with the place as with your own back yard)?

Apparently theree is more to the story: They had a flight plan to LGAV. They called for IFR clearance to LGAV on the delivery frequency but requested a different runway than the one in use. They thought they were told that they could depart VFR, stay in the pattern and pick up IFR then.

The phraseology used by at ATC was very non-standard and ambiguous. The crew was asked by delivery if they wanted to do a "lap and land".

In any event, thy had an IFR flight plan and an IFR clearance it just seems that tower was not informed by delivery what Vista's intentions were.

So again, why not try to get all the facts before blaming two fellow colleagues, even if they are from the other side of the pond. I for one would extend the same courtesy to every one.

Greetings from Germany

https://www.pprune.org/attachments/r...jt868-edit.zip

https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/...chaos-sea.html

Flyfalcons

I suppose just using the active runway was asking too much?

germanaviator

Yes, it would have been asking too much if that runway didn't allow a departure for performance reasons. The link I posted above seems to indicate this was the case.

Remember they were going to Athens, Greece, 5400NM great circle.

Flyfalcons

Then they need better performance planning. Long range jets take off from both directions all the time there.

Retractable

Everyone is painfully aware.

https://www.sherpareport.com/aircraf...red-xojet.html

One big Vista/XO family now, call sign or not.

captfred

Totally lame excuse. I have sat waiting to use 08L at KLAS and other airports for up to 35-40 minutes when the traffic was landing on 26-R and that was the only runway meeting our performance. Eventually ATC will make a hole for you in the line of arriving jets. So you tell them what you need and wait.

I have flown international departures out of Germany but I had my clearance before my IFR takeoff. We do not pull that kind of crap in your country.

Excargodog

It’s a 10,000 ft runway, 15 feet above sea level, where they generally want you to stay BELOW 1500 feet for the first 4 nautical miles to avoid overhead traffic going in to KSEA taking off to the south. Then you can climb in the river valley where the terrain is at 63 feet MSL. Going to the north you go downriver to Elliot Bay which, like most of the Pacific Ocean, trends pretty close to 0 MSL.

How poor must fully fueled performance be on that aircraft for meeting those parameters to become a problem? That’s a serious question, not just trolling.