rswitz

On APC, yes. I'm still doing my homework and networking around though. Talking to some current FJ people, it doesn't seem all bad.

FNGFO

You need to ask how many of them ever spent one second at a major airline. It’s easy to shovel sunshine when you have no basis for comparison.

I know many who are still there, and the happiness is relative. It usually comes with a “yeah but”. And you need to talk to former FJ’s at the airlines to ask them if they’d go back. That answer is almost a unanimous hell no.

It’s a real shame what KR and crew turned that place into. It was once a great operation, and it was a fine way to ride out the lost decade. There are still a lot of good people there.

I know. But you get to fly high performance business jets into exotic places. And fly celebs while offering personnel service. Yeah. I shoveled that bull***t for nearly 11 years too.

Well, I’ve got news for you. You will go to exotic locations, but rarely have enough rest to enjoy them. And usually you’ll be visiting your exotic hubs of Teterboro or PBI. Challenging flying? Yep. Anymore challenging than taking a 321 into Bogota? Nope. Personnel service? Yup. But you can be helper man and personable at the airlines too. Or not. Eat for free and keep your per diem? Yup. Hope that’s more important to you than 12-16% direct 401k retirement contribution. Never know where the trip will take you? Yes. But that phone call to wake you up early from rest to change your day is always on deck. If they’re not making you rot at an airport.

Is it better than a regional? Probably, but not if a major is your end goal. And that is rapidly changing as the pilot shortage is realized. Is it better than a major. No. Not even a ULCC. Not with the current hiring environment.

If you just really, really need to dip your foot in that pool for home basing then I’d apply to NJ’s. You’ll get all the same experiences as FJ including virtual home basing, but you’ll also have this handy thing called a contract to help keep some of the nonsense in check. Good luck.

GeeWizDriver

For “Friends of Kenn” and some Red Label minions, it might not be “all bad.”

But don’t you think it is instructive that MANY Flex pilots have left to go to NetJets (including some with more than a decade on property) and yet there has NEVER been a NetJets pilot leave (voluntarily anyway) to go to Flex?

You’re going to get more honesty from a FORMER employee of ANY company than you will from any CURRENT employee. Especially if those opinions are expressed to you directly because people rarely dump on their employer to outsiders because it makes them look silly for sticking around.

Don’t let the lure of “home basing” and “no commute” cloud your judgement on the stark financial and QOL differences between your current, very realistic path to a major airline and a fractional flying career, especially at Flexjet.

You’ll never know if you made the right choice until the day you retire but in my opinion, you would ultimately regret choosing Flex. Just my opinion (well, mine and apparently a lot of others’ opinion too) and worth every cent you paid for it.

GeeWizDriver

Aaaand what he said.

rswitz

Thanks for the info. Very informative. I'm tempted to just stay where I'm at. But I still can't get over that 100k income and home basing. Even with all the nonsense you outlined, I can't get over those very tempting things.

David Puddy

If you go fractional, target Netjets. Better option. Very long upgrade time but you get home basing and union protections.

Packrat

Honestly, pay your dues at the regional if you want to go to a major. Any other path will divert you from that early as possible seniority number. Even losing ONE MONTH on a major airline seniority list will haunt you for the rest of your career.

As an example, I got offered a July class date but my C.O. wouldn't allow me the terminal leave I had on the books to accept it. So I had to wait until September for the next class.

In the July class I would have been #1. I ended up #4 in the September class. In the July class there was a pilot who lived in the same town I commuted from.

For the next 24 years HE got my #1 choice of lines due to its convenience for commuting.

Stay with your regional, bid to a closer base to home and get on with a major at your first opportunity. Avoid the ACMIs, the fractionals and any other pathway that would divert you.

EYES ON THE PRIZE!

ATIS

Talk to some recent new hires at Flex and ask them if they made 100k last year and how much they worked.

It is all smoke and mirrors, they include per diem , fuel bonuses which are hard to get now that they changed the qualifying numbers , they include the max for the quarterly bonus which nobody gets.
You will be worked, ask about the 8 days on then the 3 off before another 7 or 8 day tour.
Flex lost over 110 pilots last year and many were new hires with just a year or two at the company. Many I talk to have applications out at the majors and a few new hires have their applications in at Netjets.
That should tell you something.

FNGFO

I know $100k sounds like a lot of money right now. It’s not nothing. But you’re costing yourself money with every second you’re delayed in making it to a major. If money is a major driver then a NJ’s pilot will out earn a FJ pilot 95+ percent of the time.

I’m almost equaling 10 year captain pay at FJ in my second year at a ULCC. And I’m working a ton less. Again, that’s if money is a major driver.

You might go to FJ and be happy. Be a career guy. It happens. But there’s not a single guy there that left a major or major cargo to go there short of being forced to for retirement. There’s not a single former NJ’s guy there unless he was canned from Quarter Shares. That says something about the job, and it also says something about some of the mentality you’ll be flying with in regards to how they should interact with and be treated by management.

And I’d read up on Ken Ricci while you’re looking and inform yourself of his Air Force record, his B scale pay structure, his non belief in seniority, his general disregard for rules and questionable maintenance practices. I’d also look up recent runway overruns, and maybe even see and avoid if they haven’t shut that BS down.

Good luck.

ImBack

I'm not a new hire and not senior but I am in my 2nd year with Flexjet. I am already a Captain here. Good luck getting an upgrade for at least 12 years at NJ and when you do it's into a Phenom or Excel I personally know I'm making more than my buddy at NJ. I worked 183 days including training last year. Of the 183 days on the schedule, I flew maybe 160 days. I flew 400.8 hours. In fairness, I did pickup 13 days at 2x and 3x my daily rate

In addition to my hourly overtime, I received $4000 dollars in fuel bonuses + the quarterly bonuses. The company has always paid those out since I've been here. I haven't spent a dollar of my per diem. The company covers everything. My QOL is amazing! I'm home based and on the PBS schedule. All the guys I fly with now have been great. All the senior pilots are moving into the Red Label program and make $1090+ per day. There are tons of senior pilots with 20+ years. Last seniority list was from 2 days ago and it doesn't look like they are going anywhere. Many of the original pilots brag about how much money they make so I don't think they are looking to leave.

Perhaps you need to need to stop drinking the Kool-Aid and ask someone who actually works for the Company.