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Stop calling it 121

Old 11-18-2019, 07:30 AM
  #11  
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What Pug also didn't include, are Fedex, UPS, and all the ACMI carriers. Those encompass another 15,000 pilots easily and they are all 121.

I am not sure anyone is ever really confused at when somebody compares NJA to part 121. They are talking about comparable companies in their respective sub industries. NJA is considered the top of the fractional industry, so when you compare 121 to NJA you are comparing top tier 121 companies. I am honestly surprised anyone had confusion about that.
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Old 11-18-2019, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Twofiddyatten View Post
Not sure there is a point to your argument. I see what you are saying, but this is high level semantics right here....
I definitely agree
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Old 11-18-2019, 05:23 PM
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While we're being pedantic, your use of "major" is technically incorrect. The DOT defines a major airline as one with more than a billion dollars of revenue. Envoy, Republic, and Skywest are all technically "major airlines". You're giving people a hard time about saying 121 when it's pretty well understood that they're talking about the top paying legacy airline jobs while in the same breath using the term "majors" incorrectly.


Originally Posted by Shenzi105 View Post
Going through the NetJets thread and the comparison with the 121 is funny.

Stop comparing with what you call 121. It's not 121. The majority of the 121 airlines offer crap pay with crap benefits and employees are treated like crap. The majority; Air Wisconsin, Envoy, TSA, GoJet, Compass, Skywest, CommutAir, Republic, Piedmont, PSA, Expressjets, Silver Airways, Cape Air, Horizon, Mesa are 121 airlines.

Just semantics, but pretty important difference in pay/benefits/QOL, a grand canyon of difference between these and the Majors. Even the lack of pay during the first 3 months of training and the average $4,300/month at Spirit Year 1 is better than the above.

Start using the word "Majors". Fits what you want to describe and c compare NJA or Flex with.
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Old 11-19-2019, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by osuav8r View Post
While we're being pedantic, your use of "major" is technically incorrect. The DOT defines a major airline as one with more than a billion dollars of revenue. Envoy, Republic, and Skywest are all technically "major airlines". You're giving people a hard time about saying 121 when it's pretty well understood that they're talking about the top paying legacy airline jobs while in the same breath using the term "majors" incorrectly.
I didn't want to surf over the pedantic but was amused staying by the semantics.

Understood that when we use the 121 as the comparison model, we understand that we are referring to the top paying jobs airlines at the 121s (in which category I would, pedantic or not, include B6, NK, AA, DL, UA, SWA, F9, AS, HA and G4). So let's stick to 'the 121s"
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Old 11-19-2019, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Shenzi105 View Post
Going through the NetJets thread and the comparison with the 121 is funny.

Stop comparing with what you call 121. It's not 121. The majority of the 121 airlines offer crap pay with crap benefits and employees are treated like crap. The majority; Air Wisconsin, Envoy, TSA, GoJet, Compass, Skywest, CommutAir, Republic, Piedmont, PSA, Expressjets, Silver Airways, Cape Air, Horizon, Mesa are 121 airlines.
Not really sure what you’re trying to get at with this...argument/point. Quality of life / benefits are in the eye of the beholder. Being an FO at a 121, er...regional... sorry.... is a pretty straight forward gig - especially living in base. Some FOs make some fairly nice $ for a 20 something, building valuable 121 experience and eventually 121 pic experience.

To the jet and home - pretty easy. To each their own, but the thought of loading bags, catering, ‘$hitters full’, etc... no thanks. Pay now or pay later. I’ll pay now and delay my gratification. Way more to this than immediate $$.
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Old 11-19-2019, 08:52 AM
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Ok from now on we all refer to top tier carriers as “Super Mega Major Epic Legacy airlines”.

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Old 11-19-2019, 09:17 AM
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Well since there is absolutely no comparison nowadays between NJA and Major airlines let’s just say from now on all comparisons are regionals vs NJA when the phrase 121 is used.

It’s most likely more realistic anyway, they both are a stepping stone to the majors. I don’t mean any disrespect since you can make a good living at both but you see people leave NJA/Regionals for Major airlines you do NOT see the flow going the other way unless it’s age 65.
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Old 11-19-2019, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by DH2time View Post
Well since there is absolutely no comparison nowadays between NJA and Major airlines let’s just say from now on all comparisons are regionals vs NJA when the phrase 121 is used.

It’s most likely more realistic anyway, they both are a stepping stone to the majors. I don’t mean any disrespect since you can make a good living at both but you see people leave NJA/Regionals for Major airlines you do NOT see the flow going the other way unless it’s age 65.
I agree. NJA vs. regional 121 is a better comparison. I think the OP is still living in yesteryear. Legacy 121 and NJA aren’t even in the same ball park. 1st year is close but you’re still coming out ahead at a Legacy 121 carrier. Then 2nd year youre making similar if not more than a NJA captain all while having more days off even if you’re flying narrow body domestic.

I’m at PSA. While the NJA group is making more than I am....it’s not by much. And I would argue even if PSA was my final stepping stone and I had to start over... I would still go to PSA or a few other regionals before NJA since the pay gap has closed quite a bit and you have a lot more schedule flexibility at the airlines. I haven’t even been here 5 years yet and I should be pretty close to 125k this year while getting 15-18 days off (of my choosing) every month. Or as some people on here like to say... I only had to work 4-5 months this year after vacation. This includes a 20% pay raise in April. So next year I should be close to 140k. Also, some of the other regionals have better work rules. My buddies at endeavor are making over 150k with similar days off. FOs at PSA are making 60k-70k. Endeavor and Republic FOs are making 70k-90k. This DOES NOT include bonuses. Yes that’s lower than NJA but with the schedule flexibility it’s almost a wash. I’ve read of some NJA pilots making significantly more but it sounds like those guys are working their butt off almost living out of a suitcase. Not for me.

Personally if you’re looking for a career then I’d say NJA is the winner. If you’re looking at just 5-7 years then moving on I would say the pay is only slightly less at a regional, but the QOL is much better. And the pay will continue to go up for a few more years. Career LCC vs. career NJA then LCC would be the winner.
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Old 11-19-2019, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by DH2time View Post
Well since there is absolutely no comparison nowadays between NJA and Major airlines let’s just say from now on all comparisons are regionals vs NJA when the phrase 121 is used.

It’s most likely more realistic anyway, they both are a stepping stone to the majors. I don’t mean any disrespect since you can make a good living at both but you see people leave NJA/Regionals for Major airlines you do NOT see the flow going the other way unless it’s age 65.
there is a huge misconception here. NetJets is not a stepping stone to Major/Legacy airlines. It happens occasionally but is far from the norm.

With exceptions (which we won't get into here), you need quality turbine PIC time to get on at a Major/Legacy. That is not happening at NJA if you are thinking of going there now. With an upgrade time of....13ish years?

You might build 400 SIC hours in a year, possibly in a jet that (certification wise) doesn't even require a 2nd pilot. That is not moving the needle as much as going to a regional, getting 800-1000 121 SIC a year, and after a few years getting PIC time.

It is all about earning more points on PilotCredentials to get an interview and you'll rack those points up much much faster at a Regional than at NJA.
You'll have better TMAAT interview stories from NJA, but if you don't get "the call" it doesn't really matter.
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Old 11-19-2019, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by pugpilot View Post
there is a huge misconception here. NetJets is not a stepping stone to Major/Legacy airlines. It happens occasionally but is far from the norm.

With exceptions (which we won't get into here), you need quality turbine PIC time to get on at a Major/Legacy. That is not happening at NJA if you are thinking of going there now. With an upgrade time of....13ish years?

You might build 400 SIC hours in a year, possibly in a jet that (certification wise) doesn't even require a 2nd pilot. That is not moving the needle as much as going to a regional, getting 800-1000 121 SIC a year, and after a few years getting PIC time.

It is all about earning more points on PilotCredentials to get an interview and you'll rack those points up much much faster at a Regional than at NJA.
You'll have better TMAAT interview stories from NJA, but if you don't get "the call" it doesn't really matter.

To be fair, you and I both left for majors lol
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