jtf560

Three company DOES do a loss of medical plan. It is 6 months of SALCO/ short term disability followed by 30 months of long term disability/ loss of medical. The union loss of medical takes over after the 36 months of company paid. The company paid is limited to 60 percent of your salary for the first 6 months and then 60 percent or 5K per month whichever is lower for the last 30 months.

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hawkerpilot05

You are right about the first 3 years LOM. The company does provide this. I should have pointed this out. One thing about the company long term LOM, it is not very good as it is capped at $5K/month. After 3 years, the company will terminate you and you are on your own. The union has a plan but it is optional for employees and renewed every few years. The last provider dropped us but we found another provider. Hopefully it will continue but who knows and is a risk we have. If we don't get enough new hires to offset the bubble of old pilots, it could go away come next renewal period and all that money you paid in is gone. Also, because we pay for this, I believe it should be included in benefits when comparing to a Legacy carrier. If you factor this in, a Legacy carrier healthcare premium isn't that much more and their LOM pays out better.

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jtf560

I agree. NetJets can be a good job, but it has improving to do.

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C2078

Cost (in annual premiums) for medical at NJ is around $5,000 (the typical LOWEST portion payed by employee for the equivalent plan). The question becomes: if the Union goes down the road of agreeing to pay a portion of Health care in exchange for higher wages, when does it become a wash and is it worth opening that Pandora’s box? ‘Cause once it’s opened, you can’t put the genie back in the lamp.

Delta folks pay almost $700 A MONTH for a plan that is not as good as NJ. Yeah, they get the 16%, cash over cap, blah, blah, blah. But their out of pockets are very high, combined with very high premiums, it definitely negates some of the “extra money”, not all of course.

And the 60%/$5k max is a nice benefit that costs money as well, not charged to employee but a cost in the CBA. I am sure the Union knows exactly what this benefit costs the company. And MANY are using it as a pseudo “retirement” plan .

jtf560

No way should the union open the door to partial medical payments. I would like to see improved loss of medical from the company- that hasn't improved in decades. Lastly, retirement via medical out is a way better deal than the company plan currently. I can't really fault anyone fire grabbing the insurance and 60 percent for 3 years after giving their careers over to NetJets.

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hawkerpilot05

There has never been any talk of having the union take over health care. Not sure where that comes from. The company has repeatedly tried to get us to pay a monthly premium and the union has turned this down. It has been said we are the only Berkshire Hathaway company that has a health care plan like we do. However, that is a left over from RTS days and we have refused to cave on this. As for our benefits, our company's long term LOM is weak and we have no LOM after 3 years. Thankfully we have a union plan but if it becomes unaffordable, we will lose it as it is only under contract for so many years and then we have to renew. Time will tell. Couple this with the lack of a DC, makes are overall benefit package in my opinion less attractive. As I am to old to leave, I will continue to push for improvements. However, if you are going to dedicate 30 years to a company, you would make so much more in retirement witha Legacy company and a DC. I have flown with many FO's who can't afford to fully invest all their money in a 401K leaving behind matched money. It was said that Berkshire Hathway will never agree to a DC so all we can do is push for a higher matching in our 401K.

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AirBear

I'm the poster child for NetJet's LOM and the Union plan. My 3 year Med LOA is up in about 4 months and I'll switch to the Union plan. I'm the first NJA Pilot that'll be drawing benefits from the Union's new LOM plan. The previous plan was dumped by the insurer when they realized they were losing a lot of $$$ on it. There was no restriction on claims for mental illness and that got abused a lot. The new plan limits those claims to 6 months. I have no backup career so this insurance is keeping me from having to work as the Greeter at Walmart. I'll draw it for a full 5 years by which time I'll be well past my normal Social Security retirement age. The max payout is pretty close to what you can make flying as an F/O at Netjets. And if I'm so inclined I can take a non-flying job and earn up to around $40K/year before my benefit is sharply reduced. The amount you can earn is based on how much you made the year prior to going on MLOA.

Pilots under age 58 who lose their medical will collect until normal SS retirement age. After 58 you'll collect until a little past SS retirement. Medical out after age 60 and the years start to be reduced, there will be few if any pilots collecting on this policy after age 70.

hawkerpilot05

One note on that, I talked to the former Chair of the Committee who was instrumental in getting the new company to take over our union LOM. Of all the individuals that went out on mental illness with the prior plan, only 1 he felt was questionable. The others definitely had mental illness and needed to be treated and may or may not ever get their medical back due to the medication they are on. It is sad that it is too expensive to offer this for them under the disguise as it is ripe for abuse. It is why people hide their mental illness and we are stuck with having to deal with it. Do you ever wonder why some of the people you fly with are a little off? Either way, I hope we continue to have it. As I get older, I realize this and a direct contribution or significantly high matching are huge. As for me, I was screwed by 9/11 so was limited on my options. However, knowing what I know now, a legacy carrier with a 16% DC will pay out so much more with a 30 year career then what we have at NetJets. Of course, what is another million dollars in retirement? With that said, as we continue to increase our 401K match, it could become a close 2nd as it has been said that NetJets will never go for a DC.

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Retractable

Don’t be too hard on yourself regarding the retirement here vs the airlines.

Most major airline pilots got their clocks cleaned by the PBGC and multiple bankruptcies following 9/11, including Delta with the exception of NWA pilots.

Everyone started over again and SWA pilots didn’t have a DC plan yet.

For thirteen years the industry treaded water and positioned for recovery.

Fast forward to 2014...

New contracts were beginning to become ratified around the industry and all furloughed had been long recalled.

New retirement programs were part of those CBA packages.

Now, do I want to see a DC Plan or equivalency? Yes. Are we headed in the right direction? Absolutely.

We aren’t just yet there, however.

AirBear

That former Committee chair has helped me a lot. The calculations for how much you can earn are complex. I had to get his help to figure it out. There's no incentive to earn above the limit because they take 86% off your benefit. So only earning 14 cents on the dollar. Now NetJets doesn't follow up on that so you can earn about as much as you want while on the 3yr MLOA, but I'm sure the insurance company will check on it when they start paying. NetJets has never asked me for any info about what I've earned.

The mental health exclusion can be abused, but if you have a verified medical reason, say something like vascular dementia, I would fight saying that's medical, not mental. And yea, I've flown with a few pilots who were "eccentric" but it's not easy to to tell when that passes the line into mental illness.