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01-13-2021, 06:13 AM
#131
Mmmm wine
Joined APC: Feb 2020
Position: A220 FO
Posts: 944
Originally Posted by ASACapt
I have a couple buds that left NJA for SWA and they feel a little different than you do. Still can’t make more than $120K and took $100k pay cuts. To each is own and glad you’re happy.
I’m not trying to say that NJA is the greatest job out there. Every place has its faults and d-bags to work with. I’m saying that it’s come a long way since a lot of you have left and the total compensation has been greatly improved since 2018.
We have schedule stability now thanks to several reasons. Life on the road isn’t that bad anymore. 14 hour overnights seem to be the new norm. I’m usually ready to go after that anyways. The company has been great to work with since the silos have been destroyed. But like all places we do have our good days and bad days. There have been just a lot more good than bad.
Until 2018, I couldn’t get out of here fast enough and had apps out. Mid 2018 changed that and 2019 locked it in that this was the place for me. I’m one of those people that really enjoy general aviation and can’t stand going to the same place over and over again. Yes our retirement still has some strides to make. Yes, our compensation package, especially for FO’s needs improvement.
But here it is in a global pandemic when most airlines are hurting, forcing early retirement, zero credit lines, etc and taking tax payer money.
NJA didn’t take a dime and still made money. On top of that we got a new contract with a lot more improvements, a bonus, free healthcare for the entire family, more productivity pay, and at a time the company didn’t have to do a thing. Financial stability and ability to weather the financial storm are job security indicators for the long game.
How many airlines would be where they are now without the government bailout?
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I’m not trying to say that NJA is the greatest job out there. Every place has its faults and d-bags to work with. I’m saying that it’s come a long way since a lot of you have left and the total compensation has been greatly improved since 2018.
We have schedule stability now thanks to several reasons. Life on the road isn’t that bad anymore. 14 hour overnights seem to be the new norm. I’m usually ready to go after that anyways. The company has been great to work with since the silos have been destroyed. But like all places we do have our good days and bad days. There have been just a lot more good than bad.
Until 2018, I couldn’t get out of here fast enough and had apps out. Mid 2018 changed that and 2019 locked it in that this was the place for me. I’m one of those people that really enjoy general aviation and can’t stand going to the same place over and over again. Yes our retirement still has some strides to make. Yes, our compensation package, especially for FO’s needs improvement.
But here it is in a global pandemic when most airlines are hurting, forcing early retirement, zero credit lines, etc and taking tax payer money.
NJA didn’t take a dime and still made money. On top of that we got a new contract with a lot more improvements, a bonus, free healthcare for the entire family, more productivity pay, and at a time the company didn’t have to do a thing. Financial stability and ability to weather the financial storm are job security indicators for the long game.
How many airlines would be where they are now without the government bailout?
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I applaud NJA for weathering the storm. The Airlines would not be so lucky if it wasn't for the bailouts, there is no argument there. However you are thinking very short term and superficial. You guys just voted in yet another reduction in pilot staffing, and some frivolous upgrades. Lowering the minimum pilots per aircraft required is going to stall hiring and movement for years. The company can add airframes without hiring, and let attrition shave more off the top, further shrinking the pilot group. Now, CA to FO ratios are so lop sided, organic upgrades are still 10 years away. NJA has stacked cash on the backs of the pilot group and this new contract is going to benefit the company much more than the pilot group.
The airlines were hit hard, but most are recovering. We are booking middle seats now, which leaves Delta as the only airline not booking middle seats. Travel demand is recovering, and will continue to recover. Bailout loans will be paid back by most fairly quickly. Projections at AS is that all EILs will be recalled and back on property by May, with hiring resuming close to the same time. We shall see.
I couldn't stand NJA and don't regret leaving one bit. Even if I was furloughed tomorrow I wouldn't regret it. But in the end I want to see all you guys prosper and enjoy NJA, especially if you are making the decision to stay. Nobody wants to see NJA or anyone who works there, fail...
01-13-2021, 12:08 PM
#132
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 285
Originally Posted by MinRest
I keep in close contact with 2 people from my NJA new hire class, as well as several former NJAers that are all at SWA and not a single person has expressed regret, whether they took a pay cut or not. That's not to say that they don't exist, but for those that don't like NJA and have left, none of them have missed NJA that I know. But none of them were wearing rose colored glasses either. There is no such thing as the perfect job.
I applaud NJA for weathering the storm. The Airlines would not be so lucky if it wasn't for the bailouts, there is no argument there. However you are thinking very short term and superficial. You guys just voted in yet another reduction in pilot staffing, and some frivolous upgrades. Lowering the minimum pilots per aircraft required is going to stall hiring and movement for years. The company can add airframes without hiring, and let attrition shave more off the top, further shrinking the pilot group. Now, CA to FO ratios are so lop sided, organic upgrades are still 10 years away. NJA has stacked cash on the backs of the pilot group and this new contract is going to benefit the company much more than the pilot group.
The airlines were hit hard, but most are recovering. We are booking middle seats now, which leaves Delta as the only airline not booking middle seats. Travel demand is recovering, and will continue to recover. Bailout loans will be paid back by most fairly quickly. Projections at AS is that all EILs will be recalled and back on property by May, with hiring resuming close to the same time. We shall see.
I couldn't stand NJA and don't regret leaving one bit. Even if I was furloughed tomorrow I wouldn't regret it. But in the end I want to see all you guys prosper and enjoy NJA, especially if you are making the decision to stay. Nobody wants to see NJA or anyone who works there, fail...
I applaud NJA for weathering the storm. The Airlines would not be so lucky if it wasn't for the bailouts, there is no argument there. However you are thinking very short term and superficial. You guys just voted in yet another reduction in pilot staffing, and some frivolous upgrades. Lowering the minimum pilots per aircraft required is going to stall hiring and movement for years. The company can add airframes without hiring, and let attrition shave more off the top, further shrinking the pilot group. Now, CA to FO ratios are so lop sided, organic upgrades are still 10 years away. NJA has stacked cash on the backs of the pilot group and this new contract is going to benefit the company much more than the pilot group.
The airlines were hit hard, but most are recovering. We are booking middle seats now, which leaves Delta as the only airline not booking middle seats. Travel demand is recovering, and will continue to recover. Bailout loans will be paid back by most fairly quickly. Projections at AS is that all EILs will be recalled and back on property by May, with hiring resuming close to the same time. We shall see.
I couldn't stand NJA and don't regret leaving one bit. Even if I was furloughed tomorrow I wouldn't regret it. But in the end I want to see all you guys prosper and enjoy NJA, especially if you are making the decision to stay. Nobody wants to see NJA or anyone who works there, fail...
Finally something from you that was well written and factually correct. Great job. I know you were only at a NJA a short time. It’s not for everyone and glad you landed at a great company.
I don’t think we are reducing the pilot group. As you know, our attrition is pretty stagnant because we don’t have a retirement age. This next part is purely my opinion and nothing shared by the company. Along with no retirement age is also a lot of the older folks on Med LoA with no intention to return. That group on Med LoA eat up that 5.0 pilots per plane, meanwhile the company is clearly doing the job with let just say 4.8. The 5.0 could make them hire when they clearly don’t need the pilots. Again, my opinion.
I don’t think the company will reduce. The 4.7 would allow the company to not hire just to maintain 5.0 with several pilots on Med leave. The 4.7 will also allow us to temporarily eat into that while we take delivery of airplanes if we choose to expand the fleet in 2021. Eventually the company will definitely have to hire.
If NetJets ever implemented an age waiver, it would solve a big part of their staffing challenges. I don’t ever seeing that happen though.
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01-16-2021, 10:26 AM
#133
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Chrysler Pacifica
Posts: 203
Originally Posted by MinRest
The airlines were hit hard, but most are recovering. We are booking middle seats now, which leaves Delta as the only airline not booking middle seats. Travel demand is recovering, and will continue to recover. Bailout loans will be paid back by most fairly quickly. Projections at AS is that all EILs will be recalled and back on property by May, with hiring resuming close to the same time. We shall see
.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...bailout-around
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