Planesense
 

Anyone heard anything good/bad about these guys??

www.planesense.aero

thanks,
LA

I know a bit about these guys as I was involved in a PC-12 frax that never made it. I flew with an ex-Alpha Flying (Plane Sense) pilot and learned a bit about them.

Here are a few insights:

They seem to treat their guys well enough and he didn't complain about working there. However, he was related to the chief pilot...

He logged time that I KNOW FOR SURE could not be logged as anything. You can't sit in the right seat of a single engine turboprop requiring one pilot and expect that time to be worth diddly! He had 2000 total and had something like 1700 PIC turbine. Give me a fricking break! They made him a capt. at 300 hrs? I think not.

The time flying the aircraft is not really all that quality. It counts for total time and turbine, kind of, b/c it's not ME time. The pay, last I checked was in the 40K range to start, which is not quite enough to live in Manchester, NH.

The aircraft, however new they may be, are relatively neglected and always very dirty.

The clients are definitely on the low end of the income scale, so don't expect to make a whole lot of networking connections that will actually go anywhere as far as leading to greener pastures.

If you need a paycheck and have 2500 total with some turbine in there, it is a good way to get paid, but it is not necessarily a good career move.

The company is solid and you could make a career out of it as I believe they are there to stay. If you could be happy flying a PC-12 for a long time, then go for it!

Hope that helps!

Shanon

Slightly off subject, but there's something about flying a big, single-engine turbo prop that gives me the creeps. I did it for a while, but I had an ejection seat, which made me feel abit better (T-6 Texan II). How does that thing glide? The Texan uses the same engine. Great engine, very reliable, but there's always a chance...

It has an AMAZING glide. Seriously amazing like 17:1. Hit the top of the ILS at 5000 feet and 170 indicated and a feathered prop and you will not only make the airport, but you'll crash the fence on the other side. You can do the teardrop return safely from 5-600 feet, no kidding.

Speaking of which...my PC-12 currency is going to lapse at the end of this month...you reminded me. Oh well.

It's a nice airplane, it's just not worth flying it from the right and hardly the left seat as people look at it like a caravan.

This indusrty
 

This industry is unbelievable. Caravan and PC-12 time is almost worthless. I seems like just a few years ago that such a thing didn't exist. Now you have to have PIC in a multi-turbine to get a second look. By the way things are going with RJ's soon we will have to have a few thousand hours of PIC Jet time to be noticed by employers. I remember back in the late 80's all it took was 1000 hours of PIC in a piston twin and you were a hot prospect. The smaller stuff is more difficult to fly anyway. I don't get the logic.

SkyHigh

Supply and demand maybe?

I totally agree with you. It is a bit frustration but now you need 1000 PIC Jet it seems to get ahead in the industry and you need some jet SIC to just get a fricking job as an FO. This industry is really hard.

I have personal experience with this PC-12 thing. I have a good friend who has literally 8000 hours in single engine turbines and 13,000 total and he is about 6 months ahead of me (with 3000 hours total) on getting an upgrade in the Lear. That tells you that single turbine time is just about on par with Cessna 152 time. Unless you want to fly the PC-12 all your life, do yourself a favor and just skip it.

I should stay away from all SE jobs? CFI / night freight in a light twin and build or pay for ME then make a move directly to a regional to build jet time first as SIC then PIC? After 1,000+ PIC jet time start sending resumes to majors/LCC?



Did i miss anything?

-LA

I think you got it. Although, on little note is that a PC-12 job MAY MAY lead to a King Air job or a C-421 job. That is the only reason to do the PC-12. In my opinion. I would try to work out ways NOT to pay for multi time though.

Work as an MEI in FL and get the multi. Try www.parisair.com I built 500 ME flying Senecas there.

Good luck!

I'm going to...I'd rather CFI to build the time, it will be more productive than being a paying PIC and waiting to run the clock down...In this case up to the desired level for that regional job...


-LA

Howdy Folks!
 

HI guys, first post here. So, naturally I will start an argument right away! :D

I work for Alpha Flying and only have very good things to say about them. We are all treated with dignity and respect and, most importantly, have a great QOL.

I'll run down JetA's list from top down:



Well, hope I did not sound too arrogant with my reply. Feel free to flame away. *dons nomex fire suit*

No offense taken.

I stand corrected about the maintenance issues. I meant the aircraft 'looked' neglected and are always dirty other than that, I don't know. I used to fly a PC-12 too, so i know the deal with that. After 5 hours it looks like the back side of semi-truck that has NEVER been washed.

The person I am referring to never told me that it was a bad place to work and I don't think that I insinuated that it was, if I did, sorry for the misunderstanding. However, his uncle was or is the person in charge of pilots...whatever that is in 91K. He also flew well before 91K so his time stands as total BS. Furthermore, I believe I pointed this out elsewhere, I am not familiar with the ops specs of a 91K operator and don't claim to be. I am familiar with the old part 91 and the current 135 jet only regs. Thanks for the reference to the FARs.

As far as the clients, I know who buys these aircraft and I know that a few VERY wealthy people own them (and Alpha Shares, I actually know who some of those very wealthy are ;) )...but I will stand behind my words. I sold PC-12s and know the clientelle. I know what they make on average and what demographic they fit into (I did bulk mailing and targeted marketing.) I also know that about 25% of the businesses that I have solicited have declined b/c their insurance requires the aircraft have 2 engines.

I think the aircraft is great. It is solid and fun to fly. I loved to fly it, it was great fun. It is a good airplane, no doubt, and as I stated, Alpha is a solid company and may make a great career for the right person. But, I will also say that I have a very close personal friend who flew, first the TBM 700, then the PC-12 and has approx. 7000 hours SE turb between the 2 with most in the PC-12. He has kept a resume on file at a few majors and has never been called to interview. He got me a job at a charter company flying jets and he is just above me for an upgrade (he has 13,000 hours and I have 3,000.)

Alpha is a good company and the PC-12 is a good airplane, but I will say again and make it more clear this time...it is NOT a good career move for someone who eventually wants to fly jets for other than the regionals if this is the only turbine PIC that they have. This I know first hand.

Ops Specs
 

As long as the operations specifications require two pilots then it is law as far as the FAA is concerned and you can log the right seat as SIC.

SkyHigh

Geronimo4497
 

Geronimo4497

Hey do you know Mike M? He and I worked togather as bush pilots in AK a long time ago.

SkyHigh

Has anyone heard of those pc-12s having an FCU problem requiring an AD. I have hear of a bunch deadsticking it in over the last year or so. A few in the Abaco where I frequently fly. Fact or Fiction?

And if the opp specs say you can logg SIC in there- how does that look to future places your gonna work? What a grey industry. ;)

I thought about this too. I flew a PC-12 single pilot and 2 pilot...the difference being the capt. was just bored in the 2 pilot op. I guess you have to consider what the future employer would say..."yes I guess it's legal time, but it is an aircraft certificated for ONLY single pilot operations." Unlike the Citations or the King Air 300, where it is a 2 pilot aircraft that is ALSO approved for single pilot, this is completely different.

If you can log SIC in a PC-12...what's next? SIC Caravan time? SIC Saratoga, C-172, Cirrus? (all legal if the ops specs say I guess.) Honestly, a PC-12 is in the same category and class with no type rating required. Only difference is an easy to use PT-6. Most piston twins are harder to fly than the Pilatus!

I agree, it's a very grey industry.

[QUOTE=loudgarrettdriver]Has anyone heard of those pc-12s having an FCU problem requiring an AD. I have hear of a bunch deadsticking it in over the last year or so. A few in the Abaco where I frequently fly. Fact or Fiction?
QUOTE]

There were, in fact, some FCU issues in the past. A fix came out a while back, but I don't think it was an AD, but I could certainly be wrong on that. As far as I know, it was just a SB from the manufacturer and Pratt (?) and everyone in the fleet complied with it. Alpha was fortunate to be able to get all of the FCU's done right away, thankfully.

Now, the way it was explained to me was that the P3 air that was used to inflate the bellows in the FCU was (obviuosly) very hot and was degrading the sealants that kept the fuel out of the bellows. Once the sealant was comprimsied, fuel was allowed to leak into the bellows and "sink" it, causing the Ng to roll back to flight idle. I guess the the fix was to put some sort of defractor on the P3 inlet to keep the hot air from directly hitting the chamber. Our maintenance guys were tearing their hair our replacing all of these, but that did a fantastic job, as usual. :cool: Now, having said what I said, I in no way in heck know what I am talking about here. This is just the way it was explained to us stupid pilots. I'm sure that it is much more complicated than I wrote.

So yes, there was a problem, and it has been dealt with. As for the "bunches" of deadstick landings, I don't know about that. We have never had one (55,000+) hours in our fleet alone, but I'm sure there are others. I know the one in South Bend sounds like it, but we are all eager for the final report to come out.



On the SIC front, I believe the time is not worth very much. The only thing it really does is help get our co-pilots to the 1500 hours for the ATP mins. Worth much, no, but sorta useful.

Bored in the cockpit with a co-pilot in the Pilatus? NEVER! How the heck else am I supposed to eat my crew meal and read the paper??!!

[QUOTE=FuelJetA]If you can log SIC in a PC-12...what's next? SIC Caravan time? SIC Saratoga, C-172, Cirrus? (all legal if the ops specs say I guess.)

Good One. Sometimes you just have to sit back a laugh through the pain.
That brings to mind this guy I put up for rating a couple years back. He went to San Juan and the last time I talked to him he's Flying a caravan SIC on a VFR ONLY charter(135.1/2) Remind me never to get on a plane in Puerto Rico.

:eek:

:rolleyes: Makes you wonder...that's for sure! ;)

Hey Geronimo, I have a few questions about Alpha, could i have your e-mail?

Sorry to bring an old topic back, but I was wondering if anyone knew the mins for PlaneSense to get hired right seat?

1000tt good luck

Bringing back an old thread - Any updates on Plane Sense or Alpha Flying? Are they going to be hiring soon? Thanks for the updates!

Hiring now..I have an interview the 28th

Dang when did you apply?

June 27th 2011..

Anyone have any pay info, junior capt date etc?

Upgrade is merit based. But most guys upgrading right now have been FOs for 2-3 years.

Pay is salary. 27k your first year as an FO. 33K as a 2nd year FO.

First year as a captain you make $38k the first 6 months then up around $41k there after.

Based on the most recent big announcements there is no payscale. Each year they will decide what people will get paid. The sad truth is the most you will probably make as a capt will be about $53k.

7on 7 off. PSM and PDK bases. Most people are based in PSM and live in New England.

Thanks for the information! ~W

I flight instruct out of PDK and would love to have an opportunity when hiring starts again. Do they post a hiring announcement? Because from what I've seen on the site, it gives you the lady to email or call but I haven't seen active hiring announcements in recent past...maybe I missed them?

Hey you are in my backyard! I live right next to PDK myself and just sent a new resume over to them. I got the automated message saying they received it and will let me know. I'll probably just continue doing that once a month. I did get a rejection email in March saying my time was too low.

I guess I'll do the same and see what happens.....:cool:

Thanks for the updates. I'll keep my fingers crossed for when hiring starts back up in full!

Agree with all of the above except 7on 7off is modified 4 times during the year, always during the summer, so you have to work four 2 day blocks during your week off. Company decides when you work these extra days. Lots of attrition lately so upgrades times will probably improve.

Question
 

What kind of bases do they have? Or are you all in NH?

Bases are PDK in Atlanta(PC-12 mx at Epps Aviation I believe) and PSM in Portsmouth

Is there any office in the PDK base? I'm local to the airport and would love to stop by and meet some of the folks. I've driven all around the airport and see no markings on any of the hangers.

Why do you suppose all the attrition?

No payscale right now...and any payscale will probably cap out around $60,000.

Not a place you can work for more than a couple of years.

If a jet ever makes it onto property things may change.

There's no office or markings....just a "base manager" who's now responsible for introducing new pilots to PDK and the flying. They have a catering closet in the Epps hangar for supplies and that's it.

I'd recommend just saying hello to one of their pilots if you're around Epps...blue shirts! Friendly group from the few I've met and know.