Legacy Airline vs Fractional
08-05-2022, 08:07 AM
#211
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2022
Posts: 164
Originally Posted by Jackrabbit57006
This is what I'm looking at doing. What do you think the likelihood of being offered the job following the NJA expo? How many are they hiring out of there? They recently started interviewing people without ATP-CTP done (me). Not sure if I should knock it out and bet on myself getting the job or wait until I get a CJO from NJA. Not going to lie, a little nervous flying a jet simulator when all my time has been piston. 700hrs dual given, 200 hours multi, 50 TW, about 90 instruments, TT at 1000. I do have a lot of confidence in my interview abilities, and I feel like I have a lot of supporting attributes that make me competitive (military, business owner, etc). Biggest thing is I don't want to get my hopes up and pay for ATP-CTP then not get the job.
Not sure how many they are hiring from expos. Everyone I talked to and remembered from mine ended up with a cjo including one person with 0 turbine/turboprop time. In fact there was one person in my indoc class who came straight from CFI'ing.
If it were me, Id wait to schedule the CTP class and wait to see if you get it, considering how many regionals will pay for it in their training program. Upside being you dont lose $$$ and they have been offering classes out a couple months so in that time you could complete a CTP course and then have the certificate and written deficiencies report for your oral.
08-05-2022, 08:41 AM
#212
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 1,024
Originally Posted by v1rotatay
Not sure how many they are hiring from expos. Everyone I talked to and remembered from mine ended up with a cjo including one person with 0 turbine/turboprop time. In fact there was one person in my indoc class who came straight from CFI'ing.
If it were me, Id wait to schedule the CTP class and wait to see if you get it, considering how many regionals will pay for it in their training program. Upside being you dont lose $$$ and they have been offering classes out a couple months so in that time you could complete a CTP course and then have the certificate and written deficiencies report for your oral.
If it were me, Id wait to schedule the CTP class and wait to see if you get it, considering how many regionals will pay for it in their training program. Upside being you dont lose $$$ and they have been offering classes out a couple months so in that time you could complete a CTP course and then have the certificate and written deficiencies report for your oral.
08-05-2022, 09:19 AM
#213
Mmmm wine
Joined APC: Feb 2020
Position: A220 FO
Posts: 944
Originally Posted by Jackrabbit57006
CFI here and invited to expo with NJA. No paid time outside of instruction. I will have a potential NJA CJO here soon and I also have CJOs from two other regionals (unfortunately not any AA WO). The type of flying NJs does is pretty attractive to me, as well as the initial pay and QOL going into a potential recession. Just wanted to get some insider info on transition to legacies if I didn't like it. Is it possible vs probable? Would it take longer than the regionals? Should I just suck it up and go to the regionals? I should note that at Regional #1 it will be a two-flight commute to work. Regional #2 would be a one flight commute but lowest pay among all regionals. I know it's a career destination and I'll treat it as such until I don't like it, if I don't like it.
Who knows, maybe I'll really like it. I don't mind being away from home and never knowing where you are going seems like an adventure.
Who knows, maybe I'll really like it. I don't mind being away from home and never knowing where you are going seems like an adventure.
You may find you get to NJA and you love it so much you never leave, or it will solidify your desire to leave. Regionals are regionals, you don't have to go to a regional to know whether you will like it or not, it is 100% a means to an end.
08-05-2022, 09:42 AM
#214
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Posts: 73
Commute vs not commuting is the big question you should ask when comparing NJ to a major. I loved my time at NJ but the
lack of schedule control was the big push for me to leave. My two hour drive north to LA now isn’t great but isn’t bad and ultimately for my situation far outweighs the benefits of staying at NJ. If you live within a couple hour drive of your major of choice’s Domicile it’s a no brainer when comparing the two. If I was outside that two hour drive or living somewhere with a garbage commute, I would of stayed. Now that I’m gone and on 5 year pay the schedule, pay, retirement and overall job quality I have now is much better than had I stayed. I always like getting the texts from my buds still there and how much they made Last year as 14 year fo’s and how much they worked to make that. I just bite my tongue and say congrats and tell em they deserve the money finally. Good luck to hose having to make the choice!!
lack of schedule control was the big push for me to leave. My two hour drive north to LA now isn’t great but isn’t bad and ultimately for my situation far outweighs the benefits of staying at NJ. If you live within a couple hour drive of your major of choice’s Domicile it’s a no brainer when comparing the two. If I was outside that two hour drive or living somewhere with a garbage commute, I would of stayed. Now that I’m gone and on 5 year pay the schedule, pay, retirement and overall job quality I have now is much better than had I stayed. I always like getting the texts from my buds still there and how much they made Last year as 14 year fo’s and how much they worked to make that. I just bite my tongue and say congrats and tell em they deserve the money finally. Good luck to hose having to make the choice!!
08-05-2022, 10:40 AM
#215
Mmmm wine
Joined APC: Feb 2020
Position: A220 FO
Posts: 944
Originally Posted by av8trinabarrel
Commute vs not commuting is the big question you should ask when comparing NJ to a major. I loved my time at NJ but the
lack of schedule control was the big push for me to leave. My two hour drive north to LA now isn’t great but isn’t bad and ultimately for my situation far outweighs the benefits of staying at NJ. If you live within a couple hour drive of your major of choice’s Domicile it’s a no brainer when comparing the two. If I was outside that two hour drive or living somewhere with a garbage commute, I would have stayed. Now that I’m gone and on 5 year pay the schedule, pay, retirement and overall job quality I have now is much better than had I stayed. I always like getting the texts from my buds still there and how much they made Last year as 14 year fo’s and how much they worked to make that. I just bite my tongue and say congrats and tell em they deserve the money finally. Good luck to hose having to make the choice!!
lack of schedule control was the big push for me to leave. My two hour drive north to LA now isn’t great but isn’t bad and ultimately for my situation far outweighs the benefits of staying at NJ. If you live within a couple hour drive of your major of choice’s Domicile it’s a no brainer when comparing the two. If I was outside that two hour drive or living somewhere with a garbage commute, I would have stayed. Now that I’m gone and on 5 year pay the schedule, pay, retirement and overall job quality I have now is much better than had I stayed. I always like getting the texts from my buds still there and how much they made Last year as 14 year fo’s and how much they worked to make that. I just bite my tongue and say congrats and tell em they deserve the money finally. Good luck to hose having to make the choice!!
Couldn't have said it any better, I can echo these sentiments. I will say, commuting is also very relative.
At NJA I was SFO then OAK based. Sometimes it would be a 1 leg flight down to LAX to grab a Phenom and start the tour. Somedays it would be a 2 or 3 leg airline flight across the country, then an hour car ride. Was it a guaranteed seat on the airplane? Yea. Was it the cheapest ticket NJA could book? Yea. Was it nearly as stressful as commuting except you knew you would have a seat? IMHO yes. Granted, I would never want to work for a company that I would not move into a domicile and choose a transcon commute and NJA will always be less stressful than having to do that. But when you compare having to work 19-20 days a month at NJA to even come close to what you make at an airline working 13-15 days a month, having a commutable schedule at a legacy and having a reasonable commute (3 hours or less on company metal would be my personal metric) would actually have you home more days a month on average.
I would pick a life of commuting if the commuting was reasonable, over being home based at NJA. Most of my NJA classmates that left, also commute in some respects (a couple are at FedEx and they get an airline stipend). But if you live in BFE and plan to stay there, and NJA serves that airport I would think very seriously about choosing that as a career.
Another thing to hopefully look forward to is that commuter policies are getting more competitive at the airlines and I think we will see improved commuter clauses, positive space on company metal, hotels etc.
08-05-2022, 11:53 AM
#216
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2021
Posts: 28
Originally Posted by MinRest
Couldn't have said it any better, I can echo these sentiments. I will say, commuting is also very relative.
At NJA I was SFO then OAK based. Sometimes it would be a 1 leg flight down to LAX to grab a Phenom and start the tour. Somedays it would be a 2 or 3 leg airline flight across the country, then an hour car ride. Was it a guaranteed seat on the airplane? Yea. Was it the cheapest ticket NJA could book? Yea. Was it nearly as stressful as commuting except you knew you would have a seat? IMHO yes. Granted, I would never want to work for a company that I would not move into a domicile and choose a transcon commute and NJA will always be less stressful than having to do that. But when you compare having to work 19-20 days a month at NJA to even come close to what you make at an airline working 13-15 days a month, having a commutable schedule at a legacy and having a reasonable commute (3 hours or less on company metal would be my personal metric) would actually have you home more days a month on average.
I would pick a life of commuting if the commuting was reasonable, over being home based at NJA. Most of my NJA classmates that left, also commute in some respects (a couple are at FedEx and they get an airline stipend). But if you live in BFE and plan to stay there, and NJA serves that airport I would think very seriously about choosing that as a career.
Another thing to hopefully look forward to is that commuter policies are getting more competitive at the airlines and I think we will see improved commuter clauses, positive space on company metal, hotels etc.
At NJA I was SFO then OAK based. Sometimes it would be a 1 leg flight down to LAX to grab a Phenom and start the tour. Somedays it would be a 2 or 3 leg airline flight across the country, then an hour car ride. Was it a guaranteed seat on the airplane? Yea. Was it the cheapest ticket NJA could book? Yea. Was it nearly as stressful as commuting except you knew you would have a seat? IMHO yes. Granted, I would never want to work for a company that I would not move into a domicile and choose a transcon commute and NJA will always be less stressful than having to do that. But when you compare having to work 19-20 days a month at NJA to even come close to what you make at an airline working 13-15 days a month, having a commutable schedule at a legacy and having a reasonable commute (3 hours or less on company metal would be my personal metric) would actually have you home more days a month on average.
I would pick a life of commuting if the commuting was reasonable, over being home based at NJA. Most of my NJA classmates that left, also commute in some respects (a couple are at FedEx and they get an airline stipend). But if you live in BFE and plan to stay there, and NJA serves that airport I would think very seriously about choosing that as a career.
Another thing to hopefully look forward to is that commuter policies are getting more competitive at the airlines and I think we will see improved commuter clauses, positive space on company metal, hotels etc.
Even if it's a two-flight leg to pick up your plane and start your trip, that would be part of your 7 days you are on, correct?
08-05-2022, 03:00 PM
#217
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,063
Originally Posted by Jackrabbit57006
Even if it's a two-flight leg to pick up your plane and start your trip, that would be part of your 7 days you are on, correct?
08-05-2022, 03:45 PM
#218
Mmmm wine
Joined APC: Feb 2020
Position: A220 FO
Posts: 944
Originally Posted by Jackrabbit57006
Even if it's a two-flight leg to pick up your plane and start your trip, that would be part of your 7 days you are on, correct?
7 on 7 off gets you around 15 days on, 15 days off (clearly varies a couple days here and there given the number of days in a month) and is fairly comparable to most airline schedules per month. If you compare that to an airline schedule, major and legacies will edge out compensation compared to NJA. Add in the fact that upgrades right now are significantly faster at every major/legacy aside from SWA your compensation goes considerably higher, quicker. Where you start making better money is if you do 76 long tour schedules at NJA which could potentially put you at 20 days a month (with an 18 day month the following) but averaging around 19 working says a month. Airline schedules once you get a couple years in, start to get pretty decent in terms of being able to get what you want and manipulate it to suit your needs with again, 13-15 days a month.
The bottom line being, if 19 days a month at NJA starts getting you to where your compensation starts to come close to airline schedules working 13-15 days a month, you can typically factor in commuting to those and still edge out the hardest working NJA schedule while making more money.
08-05-2022, 04:00 PM
#219
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 237
Originally Posted by MinRest
Yes it would 100%.
7 on 7 off gets you around 15 days on, 15 days off (clearly varies a couple days here and there given the number of days in a month) and is fairly comparable to most airline schedules per month. If you compare that to an airline schedule, major and legacies will edge out compensation compared to NJA. Add in the fact that upgrades right now are significantly faster at every major/legacy aside from SWA your compensation goes considerably higher, quicker. Where you start making better money is if you do 76 long tour schedules at NJA which could potentially put you at 20 days a month (with an 18 day month the following) but averaging around 19 working says a month. Airline schedules once you get a couple years in, start to get pretty decent in terms of being able to get what you want and manipulate it to suit your needs with again, 13-15 days a month.
The bottom line being, if 19 days a month at NJA starts getting you to where your compensation starts to come close to airline schedules working 13-15 days a month, you can typically factor in commuting to those and still edge out the hardest working NJA schedule while making more money.
7 on 7 off gets you around 15 days on, 15 days off (clearly varies a couple days here and there given the number of days in a month) and is fairly comparable to most airline schedules per month. If you compare that to an airline schedule, major and legacies will edge out compensation compared to NJA. Add in the fact that upgrades right now are significantly faster at every major/legacy aside from SWA your compensation goes considerably higher, quicker. Where you start making better money is if you do 76 long tour schedules at NJA which could potentially put you at 20 days a month (with an 18 day month the following) but averaging around 19 working says a month. Airline schedules once you get a couple years in, start to get pretty decent in terms of being able to get what you want and manipulate it to suit your needs with again, 13-15 days a month.
The bottom line being, if 19 days a month at NJA starts getting you to where your compensation starts to come close to airline schedules working 13-15 days a month, you can typically factor in commuting to those and still edge out the hardest working NJA schedule while making more money.
08-05-2022, 04:01 PM
#220
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2021
Posts: 28
Originally Posted by MinRest
Yes it would 100%.
7 on 7 off gets you around 15 days on, 15 days off (clearly varies a couple days here and there given the number of days in a month) and is fairly comparable to most airline schedules per month. If you compare that to an airline schedule, major and legacies will edge out compensation compared to NJA. Add in the fact that upgrades right now are significantly faster at every major/legacy aside from SWA your compensation goes considerably higher, quicker. Where you start making better money is if you do 76 long tour schedules at NJA which could potentially put you at 20 days a month (with an 18 day month the following) but averaging around 19 working says a month. Airline schedules once you get a couple years in, start to get pretty decent in terms of being able to get what you want and manipulate it to suit your needs with again, 13-15 days a month.
The bottom line being, if 19 days a month at NJA starts getting you to where your compensation starts to come close to airline schedules working 13-15 days a month, you can typically factor in commuting to those and still edge out the hardest working NJA schedule while making more money.
7 on 7 off gets you around 15 days on, 15 days off (clearly varies a couple days here and there given the number of days in a month) and is fairly comparable to most airline schedules per month. If you compare that to an airline schedule, major and legacies will edge out compensation compared to NJA. Add in the fact that upgrades right now are significantly faster at every major/legacy aside from SWA your compensation goes considerably higher, quicker. Where you start making better money is if you do 76 long tour schedules at NJA which could potentially put you at 20 days a month (with an 18 day month the following) but averaging around 19 working says a month. Airline schedules once you get a couple years in, start to get pretty decent in terms of being able to get what you want and manipulate it to suit your needs with again, 13-15 days a month.
The bottom line being, if 19 days a month at NJA starts getting you to where your compensation starts to come close to airline schedules working 13-15 days a month, you can typically factor in commuting to those and still edge out the hardest working NJA schedule while making more money.
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