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Old 10-03-2007, 09:10 AM   #21  
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Originally Posted by edznaz View Post
OK, thanks for the info. I'd be curious to hear what the sentiment is. The pay plus the new bases got my attention, and I'm probably on the higher end of folks you would see as new hires (10k, 6k pic jet). Hope it all works out. Thanks again for the info.

z
NetJets has always made it clear that any overage of thier minimum flight experience requirements doesn't help you in the process. Better hope they like you.
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Old 10-03-2007, 10:30 AM   #22  
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Just to clarify on the pay under this proposal, all captains at NJA will be paid the same regardless of aircraft type for airplanes under 100,000# MTOW. Captain pay is based on years of service with NJA. 5 year XL captain and 5 year G-200 captain will make the same. F/O pay is where the 40,000# MTOW issue comes in to play. Realistically, all new hires at Netjets will be on the pay scale for less than 40,000#. Why? Because we only have one plane at NJA over that weight, the Falcon 2000EZ. And there are very, very few of those planes in our fleet. The G-Wizzes at NJI are not included in this package.

So to make it simple, if this passes and you get hired at Netjets, your base salary will be as follows for your first year as a copilot (you will all start on the 18-day, but ultimately, you will be able to hold whatever schedule you want in a fairly short amount of time)

7/7 schedule: $56,875

15 day flex schedule:$62,563

18 day schedule: $69,188

And just to backup what the other NJA guys are saying, remember when you are reading all these pieces of info, it is an all or nothing deal that we have to vote on. Crew bases, salary, everything.

Also, the vote is set to be counted on or about Nov 20 according to page 99 of the IBB document we got via email.

Last edited by correcting; 10-03-2007 at 11:09 AM.
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Old 10-03-2007, 12:03 PM   #23  
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Just to clarify on the pay under this proposal, all captains at NJA will be paid the same regardless of aircraft type for airplanes under 100,000# MTOW. Captain pay is based on years of service with NJA. 5 year XL captain and 5 year G-200 captain will make the same. F/O pay is where the 40,000# MTOW issue comes in to play. Realistically, all new hires at Netjets will be on the pay scale for less than 40,000#. Why? Because we only have one plane at NJA over that weight, the Falcon 2000EZ. And there are very, very few of those planes in our fleet. The G-Wizzes at NJI are not included in this package.

So to make it simple, if this passes and you get hired at Netjets, your base salary will be as follows for your first year as a copilot (you will all start on the 18-day, but ultimately, you will be able to hold whatever schedule you want in a fairly short amount of time)

7/7 schedule: $56,875

15 day flex schedule:$62,563

18 day schedule: $69,188

And just to backup what the other NJA guys are saying, remember when you are reading all these pieces of info, it is an all or nothing deal that we have to vote on. Crew bases, salary, everything.

Also, the vote is set to be counted on or about Nov 20 according to page 99 of the IBB document we got via email.

Can someone clarify when this contract would be amendable? Did someone actually say 2016? Seems a bit long, don't you think? When could you renegotiate next?????
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Old 10-03-2007, 03:32 PM   #24  
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Can someone clarify when this contract would be amendable? Did someone actually say 2016? Seems a bit long, don't you think? When could you renegotiate next?????
The amendable date is May 2013. However, there is an option for the company to extend it til May 2016 if they meet certain provisions which deal with scope, pay, crew bases, and a couple more which I don't recall.
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Old 10-03-2007, 04:30 PM   #25  
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Don't think of this as "the contract isn't amendable until 2013, 2016, or whenever". Letters of Agreement are common to fix problems with the contract and this Interest-Based Bargaining (IBB) session took place mid-term of the current contract. IBB was actually initiated by the union as a way to fix issues with a couple of problem sections of the contract, but grew in scope as each side saw the opportunity for win/win situations in other sections. Whether it's truly "win/win" is being hotly debated by the pilots as we speak. Some, the FO's namely, potentially get the biggest piece of the pie this time around. In 2005, the sweet spot was a 5-year captain. The largest voting demographic will be the ones getting the smallest pay raise percentage, and perceive having to sacrifice the most, so "it ain't over till it's over".
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Old 10-03-2007, 05:03 PM   #26  
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Don't think of this as "the contract isn't amendable until 2013, 2016, or whenever". Letters of Agreement are common to fix problems with the contract and this Interest-Based Bargaining (IBB) session took place mid-term of the current contract. IBB was actually initiated by the union as a way to fix issues with a couple of problem sections of the contract, but grew in scope as each side saw the opportunity for win/win situations in other sections. Whether it's truly "win/win" is being hotly debated by the pilots as we speak. Some, the FO's namely, potentially get the biggest piece of the pie this time around. In 2005, the sweet spot was a 5-year captain. The largest voting demographic will be the ones getting the smallest pay raise percentage, and perceive having to sacrifice the most, so "it ain't over till it's over".
Would you guys see an inflationary increase for wages annually or would the salary numbers be fixed for 5 years? Certainly the addition of 100 domiciles will be helpful and enough to probably grab many pilots from the other fractionals and the airlines, but what about inflationary pay increases?

What specifically about this contract is objectionable for the senior pilots? Is it that they won't see much of a difference in their pay/benefits, etc? Not enough of a change for them? I can see why the junior pilots would be overjoyed with most of it...
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Old 10-03-2007, 05:51 PM   #27  
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NetJets has always made it clear that any overage of thier minimum flight experience requirements doesn't help you in the process. Better hope they like you.
OK, OK, you've tried twice to start an argument. Not taking the bait. Z
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Old 10-03-2007, 06:19 PM   #28  
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What specifically about this contract is objectionable for the senior pilots? Is it that they won't see much of a difference in their pay/benefits, etc? Not enough of a change for them?
That's impossible to say, as everyone's situation and perspective is different. I'm a real senior guy and I don't find anything particularly objectionable about the proposal. But ask 100 other pilots with my seniority and you will get 100 different personal situations and 100 different answers.

It is interesting to note that the changes made in the contract are very much in line with the results of the survey conducted by the union leadership. That correlation alone tells me this thing will probably pass by a pretty good margin.

Quote:
Would you guys see an inflationary increase for wages annually or would the salary numbers be fixed for 5 years
The numbers are fixed until 2013. Then, in the absence of a new contract, the numbers are adjusted up by cost-of-living each year starting in 2013.

Last edited by correcting; 10-03-2007 at 06:37 PM.
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Old 10-03-2007, 06:46 PM   #29  
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Hi!

I would appreciate a summary of the complete contract proposal. I have seen the pay and basing part of it.

Thanx a ton!

cliff
YIP

PS-I am in the interview pool. IF this passes, AND I'm hired at the interview, I will be a NetJets pilot.
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Old 10-03-2007, 08:27 PM   #30  
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The numbers are fixed until 2013. Then, in the absence of a new contract, the numbers are adjusted up by cost-of-living each year starting in 2013.
OUCH! Fixed rates for 6 years. That really sucks. I see why NetJets management is offering this to you. They want your pay frozen for 6 years while all the majors take big pay increases. I knew there was some catch to this proposal.

How about just a 3% pay raise each year to offset inflation. If your rates are fixed for 6 years, you are taking about a 3% pay cut each year, or about 20% over the life of the proposal. Sounds pretty bad to me!!
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