Net Jets Compensation...
 

Does anyone know roughly how a 30 yr career at NJA currently compares w other majors in terms of total compensation? (wages, benefits, 401k, retirement, etc).

I can read the hourly rates off of this web site, but I've heard that due to NJets work rules you end up making a decent amount more than your base salary.

Someone told me that you can make as much there as at the Legacy carriers.

True, false? Thoughts?

Thanks

When you factor in benefits like:
401k contributions, per diem you don't expend (NetJets feeds you), 100% paid insurance, and Captain's pay (sooner than most legacy)
NetJets is up there next to UPS, FedEx and maybe Southwest.

Also for what is going on with the airlines (4 gone in less than a month) who knows how many legacies will be here in 30 years, I think NetJets have a better chance to be around that long.

And is getting harder and harder to get on, so hurry up or you will miss the train!:cool:

TRUE

(you'll make more at SW, UPS and FDX)

As far as legacy carriers, too many variables to compare. At NetJets pay varies- 7/7, 15 or 18 day-sched. At the airlines pay also differs, wide-body vs single aisle.

I came from the airlines, some of the monthly expenses I once had:

-$120 crash pad. No commuting at NetJets.
-$200-250 meals. Free meals at NetJets
-$100 medical & dental insurance. Free bennies at NetJets, and they're better.
Plus the other little things (tip reimbursments, uniform allowence, etc)

Some people, specially the younger regional guys look at the pay scales, and say "you'll top out higher at the majors, I'll go there". I find it amazing they're comparing pay 25 years down the road, and making a decision base on that.

ShortBus driver, I'm not trying to sell you Netjets, just giving you some insight.

This year my base is $131,179-year 10, 15 day schedule- This tour I had 6.3 hours overtime @ $90.10 per hour on day one (started at 0500 and ended at 2235)... I'm on day 3 of 5 and have flown 1.8 hours this week.

My monthly average is 44 hours of flight time.

My per-diem is around $180.00 a tour. 3 tours a month.. They pay all of my uniforms, insurance etc. Only thing outta of my pocket is Union Dues..

They pay my travel to and from work..

What else can I say; o Yea if I'm tired I shut it down and go to a hotel no questions asked.. They pay for my flight physical... Doctor of my choice....

Great company.. O and I don't have to taxi fast and run people over like the SW guys because their pay is based on the moon phase or something.. Sorry had to say it...

THERE IS NO CORRECT ANSWER TO THE INITIAL QUESTION...but consider the following.

Just an example on how to figure out career potential:

Write down your age: 44

Write down your DESIRED age at retirement: 60 (Not when you MUST retire, when you WANT to retire)

Subtract: Desired - Age = 16 years

Select the airline(s) you prefer to work for: Delta vs NJA (just an example)

Here is the guess work: Use avail data to 'guess' how long it will take to make LEFT SEAT PAY: NJA - 5 yrs Delta - 8 yrs (based on data off of this website)

Review both CURRENT payscales at http://airlinepilotcentral.com (free plug) and figure out how much money you would make using GUARANTEED BASE PAY ONLY !!! Extra pay such as overtime and holiday pay varies and is never guaranteed. I would also suggest initially, using the WORST CASE SCENARIO...ie: lowest payscale, for all companies reviewed because nobody can predict which aircraft upgrades will be available when it's your turn.

Initial Results:

Netjets (Base Acft FO 5 yrs/Base Acft Cpt 11 yrs)
(You may choose your desired schedule at NJA so I use all 3 for comparison)

7/7 Schedule......15 day Flex schedule......18 Day Fixed schedule
(181 days/yr).........(180 days/yr).................(216 days/yr)
Yr 1: $ 56,875............$ 62,563..........................$ 69,188
Yr 2: $ 58,866............$ 64,752..........................$ 71,610
Yr 3: $ 63,738............$ 70,112..........................$ 77,537
Yr 4: $ 65,969............$ 72,566..........................$ 80,251
Yr 5: $ 68,278............$ 75,105..........................$ 83,060 (FO)
Yr 6: $ 103,923...........$ 114,315........................$ 126,422 (CPT)
Yr 7: $ 107,560...........$ 118,316........................$ 130,847
Yr 8: $ 111,324...........$ 122,457........................$ 135,426
Yr 9: $ 115,221...........$ 126,743........................$ 140,166
Yr 10: $ 119,254.........$ 131,179........................$ 145,072
Yr 11: $ 123,427.........$ 135,770........................$ 150,149
Yr 12: $ 127,747.........$ 140,522........................$ 155,405
Yr 13: $ 132,219.........$ 145,440........................$ 160,844
Yr 14: $ 136,846.........$ 150,531........................$ 166,473
Yr 15: $ 136,846.........$ 150,531........................$ 166,473
Yr 16: $ 136,846.........$ 150,531........................$ 166,473
Total: $ 1,664,939....$ 1,831,443.....................$ 2,025,396 [/B] (Guaranteed Career Potential)

Delta (MD88 FO 8 years/MD88 Cpt 8 years using 65 hr guarantee)
Yr 1: $ 42,000 (I am guessing you will be stuck on reserve the 1st yr so I used that for year one - 70 hour guarantee - $39,000 if lineholder @ 65 hrs)
Yr 2: $ 57,960 (lineholder - 65 hr guarantee from this point on)
Yr 3: $ 63,180
Yr 4: $ 64,740
Yr 5: $ 66,300
Yr 6: $ 67,860
Yr 7: $ 70,200
Yr 8: $ 71,760 (FO)
Yr 9: $ 115,080 (CPT) (reserve captain - 70 hr guarantee)
Yr 10: $ 108,420 (Lineholder Captain - assuming said Captain could hold a line in his 2nd year as PIC - 65 hr guarantee)
Yr 11: $ 109,200
Yr 12: $ 110,760
Yr 13: $ 110,760
Yr 14: $ 110,760
Yr 15: $ 110,760
Yr 16: $ 110,760
Total: $ 1,390,500 (Guaranteed Career Potential)

Then I would add in other factors such as Per Diem, How many days worked, whether I had to commute and pay for a crashpad, How many places could I live and still be near a domicile/base without commuting, how much do my benefits (dental/medical/vision) cost me monthly, who pays for my yearly flight physical (company or me), who pays for my uniforms, etc...

You could guess at how much overtime and holiday pay (if offered) and how many extra hours (above guarantee) you could reasonably be expected to work, by asking the folks that actually work at each company. They can generally tell you about current conditions and about how much they make in "extra" income (above base pay) each year. You can, if you choose, apply that amount to the above figures to get a more complete picture. One other consideration; who is more likely to be here in 16 years. I don't know...you don't know...but it's something to consider.

Additionally, holidays, paid days off should be considered.

Final consideration: RETIREMENT PLAN...who offers what and how will that contribute to how long I will have to work prior to retirement ? 401k vs A plan vs B plan etc...

There are alot of variables that go into the numbers but using a conservative approach in the end, will result in more accurate figures. Don't expect to be a 777 Captain at Delta in year 8 or a BBJ Captain at Netjets in your 8th year with the company. In the end, it's not all about the money for many people. Some people want to fly big airplanes and some want to make a fair wage. There are numerous intangibles that each individual will take into account when making these career decisions. Good luck to all regardless of where you end up.

PS: this isn't an endorsement of NJA or Delta...just a basic comparison. Also, if you are currently at a Major/Legacy airline and are a Captain already, or close to upgrade, the numbers would end up differently of course. The above example is scaled to someone deciding on an initial career decision between these two companies. Also, the only major/legacy carrier that pays more than NJA is Southwest Airlines. UPS and FEDEX pay more also (Cargo 121). For comparison: 12 year SWA Captain (using guarantee) makes $185,328, a 12 year UPS captain makes $223,560 and a Fedex 12 year Captain makes $199,800 (widebody). Also, believing that, "major/legacy airline pilots will recoup the salary losses due to 9/11," is a mistake...I would suggest re-looking at the current environment (economy, fuel prices, airlines shutting down) and rethink the assumption that your union(s) will actually get those payrates back anytime in the near future. I wouldn't bet on it.

try 6-9 years for an upgrade, unless there are massive retirements or large a/c order. Looks like its about on par with some of the majors now. Where do u guys get 5 year upgrade from? How many true upgrades this year so far? 20 Maybe?If were lucky we will have 60 true upgrades this year. Upgrades will hit the decade mark soon unless things speed up. I truly hope things dont take that long but with almost 3 years at NJA it will be 5 years at best for me. Good luck.

As far as comparing NJ to DL, You didn't include Greenslip pay ( correct me if Im wrong ) at 200 percent and You will most likely break guarantee as a line holder. My average weekly duty in a 7 day period is 79 hours. We may only fly 19 hours in a tour, but just as much duty time is as a person flying a 90hr line at the airlines. And who cares if u fly 10 hours a tour? IF you have 5 days of 12hr hot standby at the airport ( Like I did last tour ) id rather be flying. Too many of us say we only fly X amount of hours a month. Why dont you guys state how many hours of duty we do in a month? And as far as guar . goes we work on average at least equivalent of a 80-85 hour line at the airlines, so you should include that when factoring in how much we make.

How many bbj s do we have? Anybody hired in the last 7 years will they ever even see the BBJ? At least at the airlines you could possibly be a widebody captain. How many of us will even see the falcon? Not many.

How many 777's, 767, 747 do the airlines have? And how do they staff the widebodys? Last I heard it was about 10.5 or more per plane. NJA staffs at what 6.5? Also guys at delta were getting hired directly into the 75 76 did you figure those numbers in?

Im ranting but it just seems like too many guys try to make it seem like its perfect over here. Let the beating begin.

No Bashing...

YES mileage will vary. I thought I made that clear in the original post.

There are so many variables and so many "unknowns" that I couldn't possibly put them all in one graph...sorry. :(

As for how much we work per week...that is information that I indicated one must research. I don't agree with your assessment as to how much we DO actually work though, because it really depends on FLEET...as you know.

As for you mentioning BBJ's or FALCONS...I did not use their payscale in the above chart. They are paid considerably more...just like the 777 Captain (compared to the MD88 Cpt). That data was not included in the chart above. The chart above is for aircraft OTHER THAN the Falcon or BBJ. I didn't use Falcon/BBJ data BECAUSE it would be unrealistic for a new-hire to even think he would get in one of those airframes, as a PIC, in under 16 years. So what was your point mentioning the BBJ and Falcon again ?

And you mentioned "staffing" figures...um...so ?

I am familiar with the major airlines as I am furloughed from one (AA) and I will NEVER go back there - yes I have a seniority number and anxiously await the recall so I can tell them to pack sand. If it's so bad here, you can always apply at Delta and hope for the return of the "glory days." Seriously though, I DO miss the pre-9/11 lifestyle and paycheck at AA...but that is now a distant memory.

And finally, this information wasn't meant as a pro-NJA or anti-Delta post. Take the information and apply that information which you are comfortable with. With DELTA cutting their routes, I am not so sure that they will all maintain that 80-85 hour line pay (BUT THEY MIGHT)...I could be wrong. Again, I estimate using conservative figures and GUARANTEED PAY. You see, we are paid a SALARY, not a wage based on FLIGHT HOURS and it is GUARANTEED regardless if you fly/work 0 hours or 100 in a month. You can use whatever figures you like including 777 Captain pay from year 1 to 16...whatever floats your boat. That might be over-doing it a little though don't you think ? :D

And finally, I have never had a "perfect" job.

Oh, and get that Delta app in... ;)


Bottom line...NJA is not for everyone...but neither are the Major/Legacy airlines anymore...mileage will vary and so will career choices. Good luck everyone.

Snakeplt makes an interesting case based on minimums and a good way to think about it based on how long you plan to work. Currently NJA is a good place to make some money. Currently NJA is looking like a secure place to work. NJA and the legacies are such different jobs that the individual choosing where they want their career must do so not just based on pay, but also what they think the job itself will entail during that career. Aviation is a screwy business and things change quickly. NJA is locked into a contract for the next 5 to 8 years not including negotiations. Most of the legacies are coming up for new contracts. Nobody knows how negotiations will go. You will have many contracts during your career wherever you go so it is really impossible to predict how much you will really earn. The cargo carriers are the best paid out their now, but who knows if large cargo aircraft will still have pilots on board in 20 years? No pax to worry about onboard and huge pilot contracts have got to have UPS and Fedex looking closely at the current generation of military drones and wondering how soon they could see that in a much larger configuration. Who even knows for sure they will pass their next medical? NetJets is currently a good job and is now a place that pays around what the legacies are making after their forced cutbacks earlier this decade. I love my job here and don't plan on going anywhere, but this is aviation and I have no clue what I'll really be doing when I planned on retiring. Good luck making the best choice for yourself.

Thanks for all the wonderful insight and information guys!

Wow...you may be the first unhappy camper I have met here. I hear Mesa is hiring and you can make captain in 6-9 minutes.:D Seriously though, you may see upgrade at 9 years on an aircraft with an APU, but that is your decision. First available upgrade for a new hire this year will be around 5 years. Why? Our numbers for the past few years show roughly 70+ people leave a year. We are supposed to be taking delivery of 80 something NET increase of aircraft, but due to manufacturer's delays it is probably going to be 40 net increase. The main impediment to upgrades is the PIC merry go-round. Seat locks going to 39 months, this will slow down the merry go-round and open slots for true upgrades. So expansion plus attrition will add up to 180 upgrades needed per year. New hire today has about 1000 numbers ahead of him/her. The most restrictive bottleneck is the training slots and those will open up as the economy slows and the new seat lock takes effect.

Therefore, go have a beer and try to cheer up! Life IS good man!!!

The flightsalary .com website has some pretty in depth pay calculators for the major airlines and looks like they will have a NJA calculator up soon

There have been 5 True SIC to PIC upgrades this year, 5!!!! in 4 months, why don't u check the union boards a lot a guys agree with me as well.

The union boards are usually filled with the same handful of folks who think we are continually getting shafted at every turn. As the IBB was going through you would think from the boards we were taking pay CUTS instead of raises! So I am not suprised many on the "boards" agree with you. They were wrong then and they are wrong now...to your benefit.

Like I said...chill, have a beer, and cheer up a bit.

Have a good one.

Spot on Tim. I think some guys just love dealing out doom and gloom. I can see upgrades going 4-5 years for FIRST available based on simple math with the 60/40 crew ratio and projected hiring. The upgrades are slow now as the company tries to adjust to that ratio but it should pick up by the end of the year assuming hiring goes as planned. Of course all this can change in a NY min. But life IS good!:D

Well said Tim, I wish we had more guys like you, with that positive attitude. Amazing, great job we have, and people still find things to complain about. If you come accross as a satisfied, happy employee, you're a " kool aid drinker". That really angers me.

I've been here 3 years, I've looked at that site once or twice. I don't want to see any whining, I don't need that in my life right now. I guess that's the nature of a pilot. I think it was Gordon Bethune who said " I don't worry when my pilots complain, I worry when they're quiet".

So I guess nobody has nothing to say about the 5 SIC to PIC upgrades this year? This doesn't Shock anybody?

And its not like anybody whines on any of these internet boards right? Guess I'm the only one willing to tell the true about upgrades here.

Nope. You are just the doom and gloom prophet who will say anything negative and shocking knowing that few if any will remember or care when it does not happen just so you can say, "I told you so" if it actually does and you can feel superior to us average folks. You aren't the only one. Go to the major section here and see the couple of folks talking about furloughs already as if they were happening today.

I'll even buy you that beer if it would just cheer you up a little.:D

If what you say regarding upgrades is true, it reflects nothing more than bad timing on your part...something you cannot help, but that is the truth.

When I was hired here, you could upgrade right out of indoc but the payscales were abysmal. The true upgrade numbers will vary month-to-month, depending on a host of factors out of our control. There will always be somebody sitting in the right seat and there will always be somebody holding the rest of the seniority list on their shoulders (junior folk). It just never seems to be fair when standing at the back of the line. We have all been there and I sympathize.

Something tells me if you really disliked working at NJA, you would seek work elsewhere. Not to be flippant, but many of the legacy/major/regional airlines are hiring. Since you have decided to stay with NJA, I will then assume that overall, it has been a pleasant work experience, peppered with a sense of urgency to move to the left seat...which has been a point of frustration for you. I am quite positive though, that the FO pay rate is more than sufficient to hold you over until your upgrade. If you are a 3rd year FO, you are making between $63,000 to $78,000 BASE pay...and we all know that you make much more than that with OT, holiday pay, perdiem, bonus payments, etc... If you were starving, you might garner more sympathy.

I think once you upgrade you will see things a bit differently...but I could be wrong. I am hoping that upgrades pick up in the near future and that you are chosen to move to the left seat. But that again, is up to timing and seniority. Good luck to you.

I preface this entire reply with I am in the military, have not ever flow for the airlines or NJ. There, now that I got that out of the way....

I do have friends at both companies, and who work all types of civilian flying. I have done comparable flying, having started out flying LJ35 (C-21) for three years and am now flying the venerable C-5 (FRED).

Lifestyle wise, doing the LJ flying was by far a better lifestyle. Money wise, flying FRED made my pay jump quite a bit.

Deciding on what is going to be best for you.....only you can do that. For me, NJ is my dream job. I enjoy the money and the around the world lifestyle I lead now, but in the end, I will burn out on it pretty quickly.

My friends fly for DAL, SW, United, FDX, UPS, NJ, Flex and corporate. There are pros and cons to both. They are all happy and have given me great info on their jobs. There are to many variables to make an acurate picture of what your life is going to be like in 10 years.

I one day hope to be arguing the philosophical pros and cons to this type of flying....I envy you guys! :D

WAFP -

"Money wise, flying FRED made my pay jump quite a bit."

You actually make more money flying the C-5 or you make more money because you have gotten pay raises based on promotion and TIG since your days flying the C-21?
I mean - it doesn't matter if I fly the Hornet or the T-34C - my paycheck stays the same.

As for the comments about pros and cons and it being a very personal choice based on a hundred different issues - I couldn't agree more. I'm like you - haven't flown for the airlines or fractional or corporate or cargo but have friends in nearly every one of the above. They each seem very happy on their chosen path.

USMCFLYR

Maybe with FRED he's TDY more often. Perhaps picking up CZTE as well?

I have friends in AMC and they make a killing with all the TDY opportunities. Touch the AOR for one day and the whole month's pay is tax free. It's very nice.

It's the TDY and Tax Free that make the biggest difference. I would say that on average I get an additional $1200-1500 (tax free) a month when flying. Flying a desk, out in the sand box like I am now, I actually took a $5k pay cut :eek:

I love the military, but I see the golden time to start a great civilian career slipping away. I just hope, that when it is my time, NJ will still take me!

I started 3rd year pay in early January and have been working the 18-day.

As of March 31st (1st quarter) I have grossed $22,700. Multiplied out for the remaining 9 months of the year, I'm on track to gross $91,000 this year. FWIW :rolleyes:

91k is nice, but shouldnt we be able to make that kind of money as a 2nd or 3rd yr fo on the 7n7? Why not stick the junior guys on the 18 and you can bid out of it when you can hold it?

My point is, the more senior you get, ur pay and qol should get better.

I believe if you look at the contract, pay and QOL get better every year, kman. There is the option of giving the company more operational flexibility, i.e. working the 15 day or 18 day, and they pay you a premium for it. If you work the 7n7, a rigid schedule, then you make base pay which increases every year and as you accrue seniority you are able to choose better vacations and have more vacation days, as well as acrruing more PTO days unless you have already used them.

Of course that isn't your point is it. You still think you are worth more and should work less. NJ is not the only employer around. A handful of employers just off the top of my head that pay more: SWA, UPS, FedEX, Cathay. I am sure there are more. Stick around here and help negotiate better pay rates next contract, or if you can't wait that long, market your skills to a company willing to pay your desired compensation.

It's what a free market is all about.

..........

Newbie
 

Hey all. I searched the site and found out that NetJets does infact have Military Reservists/Guard pilots. As a military member looking to transition to the civilian world, what is the recommended route to take if I plan on joining a Reserve Squadron? Should I try to get all spun up at the squadron before I try to get a job? Is it frowned upon if a new hire has to take 3 months off to get spun up on an new military aircraft? I would never want to leave a new employer hanging and am just trying to have a plan of attack. Of course my plan and what happens are very rarely the same. Thanks for the insight.

It's all about food on the table
 

I am by no means an authority on this but here it goes. I will be separating soon through Palace Chase. My plan is to get hired by anyone that will put food on the table. In a perfect world I would be trained up at my reserve job first so I don't have to take Military leave. However, if company X hires me while I am waiting for my Mil training date I will start with company X. I am not an a$@ but I do have a wife and two kids. The reserves can't get rid of you for training at you civilian job, and your civilian job can't get rid of you for mil leave. I have the same problem you do but this advice was given to me by those that have been there and done that. Two years down the road no one will remember.

Cheers!

One more thing
 

If you do get hired and both training dates are the same...go to your civilian training! In most cases you are not an employee until trained on property. In the reserves once you have a position number/sworn in you are good to go.

CU around ;)

NJA is EXTREMELY military friendly. If you have to go, they let you...no questions asked.

Hey, Im all for helping to raise the bar , and will offer my time for the cause. But as far as the current contract, the 7n7 pay gets about what a 3k yearly raise besides yr 3? Most likely be a 5-6 yr upgrade for me a new hire could easily hit close to a decade. It would start to get pretty old at 70k after 8 years as a fo. We currently are being compared to SWA, Fedex, UPS. 2nd yr FO for all those carriers are close to 100k, thats what I believe we need to be at.

Wow. It doesn't take long to forget how the rest of the world lives, does it. Thats a shame.

I'm thankful everyday that I am privileged enough to live in the U.S. I'm also thankful everyday to be privileged enough to be flying jets in the U.S., and if I'm ever lucky enough to pile even more privilege on top of all that, and even fly for NetJets, I will be thankful every single day for that too. I could live the rest of my life on 70K..... and be truly, truly, thankful - content and satisfied. IMHO, happiness is found in giving thanks for the huge quantity that is in what you already have, and giving from that bounty to others less fortunate. Happiness/bitterness is a decision - I've made my choice. Since I'm already happy where I am in life, anything I achieve in the pursuit of continuous personal improvement is icing on the cake. Stepping down from the soap box now...

Wow you guys amaze me. Whats wrong with being well paid? Im sure we could all live on 70k if we had to. But why not strive for more? And who is bitter and unhappy my life is great, but wouldn't it be nicer with an extra 30k in your bank?

And Kdub, how long have your worked for NJ? How the rest of the world does it? Do you think about the starving kids in the world every time you sit down for a meal? Maybe every dime over 70k you make you should donate to a charity?

What did it take for you to get your job? Was it easy? Maybe we should take a pay cut, because we all don't need anything more than 70k.

And why do so many pilots undervalue the price we pay to get where we are?

Did any of us land our job by sure luck or was it determination, hard work, education, debt, time away from family, sweat and tears? We could have all choose a path that was easier, more stable, with the ability to come home every night, but we didn't.

We all gave up and constantly give up a lot to get and stay where we are, why can't we be on par with the other side of aviation?

Is 50k lbs of cargo more valuable than a fortune 500 ceo?

You may think 70k at as 8 yr fo is fine and dandy, but I choose to think its not. And if we all carried the attitude of don't rock the boat and we should just be happy with what we got we would never see another raise is our lives.

Why is it that a ups or swa fo is so much more valuable than a NJA fo? Why shouldn't the QOL and time off get better with seniority? I got over 25 yrs of flying at NJA left (till age 60) if i so choose. Why can't I want more for me and my pilot brothers and sisters? For the amount of work we do compared to UPS, FedEX, and SWA, we need to be at least on par with there pay. And as far as QOL why shouldn't a 20 yr guy have a better qol than a 10 yr guy? Would you really be wanting to bust ur hump on a 7 day tour or more if you didn't have to at the age of 40, 50, 60?

I may have more questions than answers, but maybe you should ask yourself do you know what your worth? I sure do and its definitely more than 70k a year.

And at the minumum we should be around 90k for a 3rd fo on the 7n7 and 5 yr captains pay should be at 130k on the 7n7.

Maybe you should resign from NJ and join SWA, Fedex or UPS. This should make you happier in life.

kman -
I agree. Why should you have to fly for less than others? I also know that it is impossible to just snap your fingers and just make money appear. I wish it was that easy.

iluvetops -
Why should he leave to fly for anyone else? Does this mean that when any pilot asks for a raise they should just go to wherever they pay more? How is it okay to negotiate an increase in pay, but when kman says that he is happy where he works, but would be even happier with more money, you treat that as a bad thing?


It is the American way of life to strive for more, strive for better and reach for the stars. That is how change is made and how people get things done.

If you're not happy at your job, then find something else. But if you are happy with your job, but want more....go for it! That is the reason that pilots don't make minimum wage. If no one wanted or asked for more, they would never get it. Business is not in the habit of just giving money away.

When did they let Jonny O. on this message board??? :eek:


No argument here.... you ought' to jump on the negotiating committee next time 'round!! ;)

finally somebody that gets my point. Thank you.

Or...

Maybe someone who didn't read your post fully. As a 8 year FO, the G's will be here along with the Cessna Columbus and you can make 104K+ a year on the 18 day if you need the money. You CHOSE to work here under a much different set of rules. Your union went and won you 95 different places in the country to live and a 67% raise when the company was under no obligation to give either. And they weren't obligated to even negotiate until 2010. You CHOSE to work at NJ. Now you feel you are unfairly treated, and you are like many of us including me, GREEDY! That's OK! I have no problem with it. I do have a problem with the mode of thinking that it is OWED to us. Itg is most certainly not. Farmers feed us all. We take wealthy clients to destinations for convenience of time. Which is more important? The farmer is, but he makes much less!

The point is you get compensated for what you negotiate. If you don't feel properly compensated at NJ, then YES, apply for SWA, FedEx, UPS!!! Right now we need to focus on improving our product, i.e. focusing on each individual owner so they ALWAYS return to NJ and not our competitors. Word then spreads and we gain more owners and more planes, more flying, more market, more profits, and when 2013 comes around, BETTER pay rates. For now, concentrate on what is good about NJ and improving our product instead of grousing about how poor and mistreated we are.

Cheers!:D

Maybe u misread my post. I stated 90k on the 7n7. Why can't you guys read? Even with the columbus, is that going to be a class 4 a/c? If its not the pay would still be the same as an ultra? So a columbus fo on yr eight pay is what on the 7n7? 70k ish.

And you act like we give nothing in return for our TA, maybe u should do some research and think twice about the company just giving us more bases and raises out of the goodness of there hearts.

How many g's position do u think there will be? there has been about what 4 positions this year? And what about 900 sic's on propert? And where did u get the a 67% raise? I went from 44k to about 58kwhen the ta passed. My math is pretty bad but thats not 67%. And when did I say we were unfairly treated or something is owed to me? All Im going to hear from now on is, "well if u don't like it quit or go somewhere else." No, If a better opportunity shows up I take it, but until then I going to try to add Pay and QOL for all NJA pilots.

I just want to strive for more, and all i get is static and don't rock the boat responses from u guys. Maybe we should just wait and let the company give another raise out of the goodness of there heart. Cheeeeeerrrsss right back ya.