Netjets upgrade
 

This question is asked every few months, but needs updated about that often.

How long for the first available upgrade at NJA currently?

I've heard it will take "a long time" to upgrade. I'm trying to figure out what that means exactly.

Thanks,

Flyguppy

Probably around 5 to 6 years for new hires. Just a guess.

This year, upgrades will be slow. With the new contract, many of the senior pilots will exercise their rights to move to a different plane (most of the planes are on one pay scale now). Once the reshuffle has occurred the upgrade picture will become more clear. We are still growing and expecting planes to be delivered. 5 to 6 years is what most are forecasting, but things could change for better or worse.

more like 6-9 years, with only 20 true upgrades this year so far. It could hit a decade b4 we know it.

my instructor at flightsafety told me NJ will be out of bussiness before then.

NJ, the Gold Standard in the Frac biz? I laugh at that comment, HA!

Thanks for keeping things entertaining!

-Yeah and I read the world is coming to an end in 1999......
-there will be a big earthquake in California and the whole state will sink into the Ocean.
-there will be peace in the Middle East
-any others????

Ask your instructor if he interviewed at NetJets. If he did, ask him how the interview went.......

Don't forget, there are REALLY, REALLY old guys at NJA. There will be quite a bit of attrition in 3 to 5 guys from guys retiring or dying.

Out of business in 10 years? I better keep my resume updated!!!!

that dying part is funny as **** :D

There really aren't as many old guys here as many believe. Sure there are some guys in their 70s, but I'd guess less than 20 percent of the pilots here will be retiring in the next 10 years. Many of the older guys came here from airlines that raped their retirements and they will have to keep truckin' until they either can't pass the medical or finally save up enough. My guess is that the average age of a NetJets pilot is somewhere in the low to mid 40s. Do not plan on streaking up the seniority list for upgrade. You will need the list to grow behind you until you are in the top 60 to 65 percent before you upgrade. Upgrades will be slow until the current captains get settled in to the fleets the want for a while- guys off seat lock or near the end of their seat locks will continue to swap aircraft to get onto a fleet that suits their needs the best so many 400 and Ultra drivers will take the APU slots as they open and some who are very junior on the APUs may bid down for better vacation or start days. My guess is true upgrades start accelerating late this year or early next year, but they still won't be all that fast. 5 to 6 years, minimum, is where my guess is for a new hire.

Decade? That IS funny...almost as funny as the part about us going out of business. Attrition plus expansion would put a newbie as of today where others are guessing...about 5-6 years. If the manufacturers get up to speed and stop delaying our deliveries AND FlightSafety gets us training slots upgrade could stay at 3 years for awhile. If aircraft DON"T get delivered...etc...then upgrade slips to NEVER. So instead of being that much of a pessimist, try going with current information.

As for my part in the DISinformation effort on this thread, I heard Delta is liquidating next week. Hey it's as factual as some of the other stuff here.

Cheers! :D

I heard W. B. is getting a little too risky and there is a chance that in the next month or so Berkshire Hathaway is filing for bankruptcy. That is just what I heard.

Now that right there is funny, i dun care who are you.

Ok how about this current info.

5 true SIC TO PIC upgrades in 4 months for 08, 5!!!! Go check out the union boards a lot of guys agree with me.

How Many true upgrades have we had this year and last? 50? Ok lets say 50 true upgrades(SIC-PIC) this year and next. That will put upgrade about what mid 1900's? For me a upgrade will be maybe 5 or 6yrs, about mid 2000's seniority wise. Are you telling me its going to take a guy hired today will upgrade in the same amount of time I will? WOW, Wish I could drink some of that kool aid ur drinking, Im parched.

The company staffs PIC's at about 60%. There are about 2800(Not including NJI which adds about 300 to our list, if we merge) give or take guys on our list. So for a guy hired today 2801 or so needs for the company to hire about about 1900 more guys to be with in that 60%. In the last two years we have hired about 250 plus or minus guys a year. So 1900/250 = 7.6 years for this guy to get within that 60%. Maybe you have upgraded already, but guys need to know the truth before coming here. The PIC musical chairs will not stop anytime soon, even with the 39 month seat lock. And in certain fleets we are fat on captains, guys that bid out of a position on a fleet that is fat , there position in not replaced it just Vanishes. And with NJI merger, FSI limited ability, IOE backlog, Guys will be lucky to upgrade in 6 years, If I was hired today I would expect to be on FO pay until year 8. And as far as attrition, have you looked at the seniority list lately, just take a look at how many young guys we have on our list? We have probably one of the youngest groups out there. And a of attrition in the last couple of years have been FO's. I really do hope ur right but, U need to check ur info. And I know my typing and grammars skills suck, I really don't care cause I just had a 14 hour day and it sucked.

Guys hope for the best plan for the worst.

Disinformation? Yeah I really out there to discourage guys on coming here. The more we hire the faster we upgrade, so I m on this board to sabotage my upgrade, your soooo smart. Maybe all the koolaid ur drinking is going to ur head. How is 5!!!!! true upgrades in 08 disinformation? so thats like 1.25 sic's to pics a month. And ur right maybe we will get 50 hawker 4000 this year, and maybe the ssbj too, and maybe just maybe RTS will dump the SIC salary and paid as a captain.

How many a/c actually get delivered in the promised time frame? How many FSI slots are available this year fo non apu aircraft? what about 50? Its not like the ultra going away or nothing right? Are we not trading in 2 ultras for encore +'s. Its that a net loss on the non apu side?

3 years, well looks like I will upgrade this year according to ur math, and if I do I will personanlly buy all you guys beers at anyembassey suites during the manager special. Good

lets look at the BEST pilot jobs of modern times, can you think of one where the upgrade is less than 8 years???? just one....

It is impossible for Netjets or any other company to keep our current level of growth, eventually it will have to slow, perhaps even stop. By 2010, we'll be looking at an 8-10 yr. upgrade, maybe more (airline style).

Whoa guys. If all you want is a quick upgrade, I hear Flops is hiring. Be careful what you wish for.

It's the geriatric club over here!
 

Have you seen the average NJA pilot??? Many of the senior guys at NJA are on the "fly til you die" program, but eventually they will start keeling over. I'd say we have one of the oldest pilot groups in the industry. Fortunately, we are starting to hire younger applicants as the competition gets fiercer, but I'd say at least 3 out of 5 pilots at NJA have grey hair (or no hair) and more than a few are just a couple years away from needing a walker.:D

For those folks who were hired around 4-5 years ago, upgrades are occurring now. It is very hard to predict which way upgrades will go for those who are hired TODAY. If you research the NJA FO payrates though, you will see the wait won't be so painful.