F16Driver

This is the funniest thing I have read in a long time. Good luck with your career, young one.

Just remember, management loves you and will never let anything bad happen to you. Why? Because you're the best pilot they have. They can't afford to lose you.

blastoff

Well, it was stated at the beginning of the thread why they lost their jobs. They were fired for not picking up overtime. Texaspilot, you just keep putting your foot in your mouth don't you?

jmack

Texaspilot

Did your Daddy fly for Eastern after 88'??? that would explain a lot.

texaspilot76

I have never been afraid to voice my opinion of the seniority system. I have seen the union at my company represent a pilot in an attempt to save his job despite that individual having committed an act so disgusting that it would make you puke. Yet these idiots keep their job because the union fights for them, yet they do not fight to keep the junior guys from getting furloughed. You cannot judge job performance based on years of service. I am in control of my career. My years of service does not control my career. I will work hard and do whatever it takes to achieve my goals. And that comes with hard work, not seniority.

No disrespect to the pilots there at FLOPS. I meant no harm by the hiring comment. But if FLOPS does promote and reward people based on job performance and not seniority, I would definately be interested in working for them.

Slice

You haven't been flying for a union carrier very long so you haven't seen much! I also assume you haven't seen mgmt trying to pressure pilots to do the wrong thing, correct? Go corporate if you don't like it. It's here to stay in the airline world.

F16Driver

This thread keeps getting better and better.

767pilot

.....nevermind

767pilot

good luck with thinking like that. You are far from in control of your career. Talk to us in about 20 years if you aren't on some scab list by then

Zapata

You know what? FLOPS management does indeed reward for performance. Do you know how they measure performance? Average legs per day. Do you know who has the most legs per day? The management suck-ups that are flying broken airplanes, fly over duty, answer their phones during rest etc. (you get the picture)

Looks like you'd fit right in.

Look sonny, the airline biz requires seniority. Sure, the system has its flaws and people slip through the cracks. If an airline has a good and honest training program, this issue is mitigated. However, without seniority, it exposes the system more to politics and ass kissers. There would be many more Captains that shouldn't be flying airplanes at all and many more career FO's that should be Captains if it wasn't for seniority. Merit based systems work better with much smaller groups like corporate flight departments. With large groups like airlines, a merit based system would be a fiasco.

I can see how a junior FO is against seniority.....you'd do anything to step out of line and get ahead, wouldn't you?


You'll learn......eventually.....one can hope.

B727DRVR

OK TexasPilot76,

I think that qualifies as a good enough apology to the unfortunate 70 pilots at Flight Options all terminated the same day for "cause". The reason that I and others are so passionate about this is that terminating pilots "en mass" is something that we have seen personally at our carriers. At my one 121 airline, before we were smart enough to organize, people were promoted by "performance". Of course, that performance was arbitrary and depended how much ass you were willing to kiss: The D.O. would continually modify the "seniority list" based on a whim.... One day, 55 pilots were terminated, 12 for "cause". Some of these "causes" were union organizing, saying no to unsafe activities, and not carrying broken airplanes. Of course, we smartened up after that and organized.

At a previous 135 cargo carrier, 11 pilots, including myself, were taken hostage two weeks to the day that we voted in the union. The company called the "cause" as slow business, even though we were in heavy season and management pilots were flying their butts off and begging the other pilots to do the same. But, in amazing solidarity, the remaining pilots remained united and refused any extra flying. When management pilots timed out, and half the fleet was grounded hard across the country, the 11 MEC officers, organizers, and sympathizers were all recalled with back pay.

TexasPilot76, I am still a little concerned about your attitude despite your apology. Sometimes, "performing" for a company means doing evil and illegal things. Yes, they are out there..... At the previous 135 company that I mentioned, pilots were rewarded or punished for their "performance". The D.O. said that he wanted "Team Players".... Being a "Team Player" here would get you promoted in the jets lightening fast, but caused much disrespect among your peers. In fact, being a "Tango Pop" became a great insult among the pilot group. Here, team playing included carrying broken airplanes, going below mins to "service the customer", exceeding flight and duty times, taking off over gross, and WHATEVER ELSE IT TOOK to keep management happy. This included the ONE (1) pilot that crossed the picket line during the '97 UPS IBT strike (99 other non - "Team Player" pilots refused). While we were disgusted with that pilot, management was elated with him for "performing so well". He was now a "Team Player" until he said "no". Once he said "no" to anything, he was no longer a "team player" and thus he was performing poorly.

TexasPilot76, is this the world in which you long for...? One in which you are a Captain one day, but are downgraded or furloughed the next because a new "better" pilot or "better performer" came along....!?!? "Yes, we realize that you were a Blue Angel, but SHE was a Thunderbird AND a Shuttle Commander". So we're "letting you go..." I suggest that you read the famous book Flying the Line to understand why we fought for a union and seniority-based upgrades 75 years ago. Many of the safety benefits that you now enjoy and probably take for granted were hard fought for then, just as forced child labor and safety were fought against and for by earlier union organizers. Do you not understand this?

Finally TexasPilot76, I am concerned about your statement " I am in control of my career. My years of service does not control my career. I will work hard and do whatever it takes to achieve my goals. And that comes with hard work, not seniority." Sometimes "DOING WHATEVER IT TAKES" to achieve your goals means doing illegal acts, evil acts, or stepping upon others... At what price do your fellow pilots have to pay for your "goals"? And does "doing WHATEVER it takes" include doing illegal activities to gain your management's favor to get on top of your fellow pilots? Does "doing whatever it takes" include exceeding duty and flight times, carrying broken airplanes, going below mins, taking off over gross or without regard to performance limitations, etc. How about crossing picket lines set up by your fellow pilots or airline workers? Just where does "doing whatever it takes" to promote your own selfish goals end?

I want a fellow pilot (actually any person) to stand behind me when my cause is just, and I will do the same for them. Don't you??

To quote my former "evil" D.O., "One thousand 'atta-boys', doesen't equal one 'Oh 3hit'". Doing illegal, morally wrong, or evil things often gets you promoted, but in the end (just like Hitler and Saddam's Generals) you get a bullet to the back of the head.... Be careful of the master you choose to serve out there TexasPilot76 because at the end of the day you must look in the mirror and ask yourself if it was worth it....

Thanks for your apology to the Unfortunate Flight Options pilots and good luck in achieving your goals... Just do it with regard to others.

In Unity,

B727DRVR