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Old 08-08-2008, 01:09 PM   #31  
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Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: A320 CA
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Originally Posted by DWN3GRN View Post
So how would one de-activate "Lift Dump". It seems to me that when Max Power or Go Around is initiated the "Lift Dump" retracts the leading and or trailing edges devices and doesnt lockout flap retraction. Not a hawker wizard but that could be a lawsuit in the making.. my 2cents
Lift Dump is achieved simply by taking the airbrake handle over a gate and full to get out of lift dump you move the handle back over that gate. It is purely mechanical and has nothing to do with full power or idle. The spoilers and flaps will go to lift dump at any time the mains are on the ground. The motor that moves the flaps from 45(landing) to 75(lift dump) is a high speed motor and only requires a few seconds to go from 75 all the way to 15(t.o.). The flap handle can be moved while in lift dump, but will not result in flap movement.

Last edited by captscott26; 08-09-2008 at 06:36 AM. Reason: technical correction
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Old 08-09-2008, 03:28 PM   #32  
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Default Hydroplaning possible...

If you fly jets long enough, you will at least once experience hydroplaning immediately after touchdown (typically right after heavy rain with some threshold amount of standing water that your particular airplane may be sensitive to). In the cast of the Hawker, 3/4 inch seems to be just right. If hydroplaning does occur, braking and directional control may not be possible above 80-90 knots.

The case could then be made for an attempted aborted landing. I have done enough touch-and-gos in jets to know that regardless of [jet] aircraft size, you always need lots of runway (even dry); much more than 5500 feet to do it safely.
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Old 08-10-2008, 09:47 AM   #33  
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HawkerJock, I totally agree with you! That could have been any one of us involved in that unfortunate accident. Like you said, when you've flown jets long enough, at some point throughout the years, you encounter situations that have the potential to get REALLY UGLY! 99.999% of the time, you manage to "get by" just fine, or just get plain lucky, and life goes on, just as it always has. But there's always that ONE time that it could bite you in the arse............and unfortunately that may have been what happened to this crew.

They very well could have made all the right decisions (flying around the worst part of the weather, making a decision to continue to destination after seeing the winds and weather get considerably better, calculating the WET landing distance needed, and so on). Heck, they may have even noted on short final that the runway appeared to have no standing water and might have prudently decided to touch down on the numbers instead of the 1000' markers. The point is, we can all sit here and say to ourselves that "I would have done things differently", or "I would have never done what they did", but it's very easy to play monday-morning quarterback.

Just maybe the WET numbers worked on paper, and just maybe the runway had no standing water or appeared that way, and just maybe they hit the some point things were not working out like the crew had thought, and they were faced with 2 options. Go-around and head to the alternate, or run off the end of the runway. With only seconds to think about that, many of us probably would have attempted exactly what they did.

And please don't keep saying that you would not have been in that situation ever, you're telling me that you've never landed on a wet runway after a storm had passed by---you are full of it!
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