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Old 09-01-2008, 10:04 AM   #71  
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Just begs the question why are you in the fractional forums??
I like to keep up with whats going on outside of my area. Gives me an idea where the next batch of people might come from. The fractional business is new compared to most of what are called airlines. Its interesting to see how far it will grow before it becomes large enough to attract the government, cut throat competition, a private equity outfit thats going to take it apart or get sold off .
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Old 09-01-2008, 10:49 AM   #72  
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Glad I am not in a position to have to apply anywhere.
Thousands of pilots feel that way, particularly those at FDX, UPS, SW, CO and NetJets/NJI......... But you gotta stay humble, if your company or mine or anyone else is doing well right now, that's what it means, "its doing well right now", things change, nobody is inmune.

For all we know, a couple of those companies above mentioned could be gone 10 years down the road, unlikely, but not impossible.
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Old 09-01-2008, 11:24 AM   #73  
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Originally Posted by 757upspilot View Post
I like to keep up with whats going on outside of my area. Gives me an idea where the next batch of people might come from. The fractional business is new compared to most of what are called airlines. Its interesting to see how far it will grow before it becomes large enough to attract the government, cut throat competition, a private equity outfit thats going to take it apart or get sold off .
I understand that. I visit the Cargo forum from time to time and you UPS folks speak a totally different lingo.
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Old 09-01-2008, 11:49 AM   #74  
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Originally Posted by 757upspilot View Post
I like to keep up with whats going on outside of my area. Gives me an idea where the next batch of people might come from. The fractional business is new compared to most of what are called airlines. Its interesting to see how far it will grow before it becomes large enough to attract the government, cut throat competition, a private equity outfit thats going to take it apart or get sold off.
I'd say you're a few years behind.

Let me catch you up:
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Originally Posted by 757upspilot View Post
...to see how far it will grow before it becomes large enough to attract the government.

The FAA got involved in 1999.
In October 1999, the FAA convened the Fractional Ownership Aviation Rulemaking Committee (FOARC), consisting of twenty-seven representatives of a cross section of the business aviation and on-demand charter industries, foreign civil aviation authorities, the DOT and the FAA. Aviation Advisor Jul 18 01

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...cut throat competition?
Several frac providers have already tried low fee programs. As a matter of fact, Flight Options began as a "used plane" low cost alternative to NetJets.

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...a private equity outfit thats going to take it apart or get sold off.
Once again...already happened. OPTS was sold to HIG Capital in 2007.
Flight Options was acquired in November 2007 by H.I.G. Capital, LLC, a leading global private equity firm with more than $4 billion of equity capital under management. H.I.G. specializes in acquiring companies with great growth potential and helping them achieve their goals. H.I.G. support and investment will allow Flight Options to build on its success as the most innovative company in private aviation.
Flight Options: Private aircraft programs on a higher plane: Programs: FAQs
Flight Options cuts nearly 200 jobs, including 75 pilots - Cleveland Business News ? The Latest Breaking News, Earnings Reports and Stories from The Plain Dealer

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Originally Posted by 757upspilot View Post
The fractional business is new compared to most of what are called airlines.
NetJets original company (EJA) was founded in 1964. NetJets program was founded in 1986. Two years before UPS received its Air Carrier Certificate (1988). NJA currently operates over 500 more a/c that UPS.

Last edited by NJA Capt; 09-01-2008 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 09-01-2008, 12:04 PM   #75  
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nevermind

Last edited by FLY6584; 09-01-2008 at 12:07 PM. Reason: misunderstood post
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Old 09-01-2008, 12:28 PM   #76  
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I'd say you're a few years behind.

Let me catch you up:



The FAA got involved in 1999.
In October 1999, the FAA convened the Fractional Ownership Aviation Rulemaking Committee (FOARC), consisting of twenty-seven representatives of a cross section of the business aviation and on-demand charter industries, foreign civil aviation authorities, the DOT and the FAA. Aviation Advisor Jul 18 01


Several frac providers have already tried low fee programs. As a matter of fact, Flight Options began as a "used plane" low cost alternative to NetJets.


Once again...already happened. OPTS was sold to HIG Capital in 2007.
Flight Options was acquired in November 2007 by H.I.G. Capital, LLC, a leading global private equity firm with more than $4 billion of equity capital under management. H.I.G. specializes in acquiring companies with great growth potential and helping them achieve their goals. H.I.G. support and investment will allow Flight Options to build on its success as the most innovative company in private aviation.
Flight Options: Private aircraft programs on a higher plane: Programs: FAQs
Flight Options cuts nearly 200 jobs, including 75 pilots - Cleveland Business News ? The Latest Breaking News, Earnings Reports and Stories from The Plain Dealer


NetJets original company (EJA) was founded in 1964. NetJets program was founded in 1986. Two years before UPS received its Air Carrier Certificate (1988). NJA currently operates over 500 more a/c that UPS.
The government attention is more along the lines of the TSA and Homeland security.

You aren't big enough to attract the cutthroat competition, when you are it will limit your growth.

Sorry about Flight Options, probably just the first.

UPS was moving airfreight in the 30's

500 more a/c, that depends on what you call an a/c.

Your total fleet value and gross and net revenue last year?


I have been watching the fractional outfits
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Old 09-01-2008, 12:32 PM   #77  
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I understand that. I visit the Cargo forum from time to time and you UPS folks speak a totally different lingo.
Its a totally different business, very strange sometimes
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Old 09-01-2008, 01:00 PM   #78  
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Originally Posted by 757upspilot View Post
The government attention is more along the lines of the TSA and Homeland security.

You aren't big enough to attract the cutthroat competition, when you are it will limit your growth.

UPS was moving airfreight in the 30's

500 more a/c, that depends on what you call an a/c.

Your total fleet value and gross and net revenue last year?
Don't shoot the messenger, it came from the UPS website:
In 1988, UPS received authorization from the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) to operate its own aircraft, thereby officially becoming an airline. UPS: 1981-1990

TSA and DHS are already involved, and yes we receive all necessary TSA training and perform required pilot/pax screening.

The competition doesn't limit our growth. Two things limit the fractional market. The number of people who can afford the service (market barely scratched), and the infrastructure to support such large fleets. In a nutshell, there isn't enough FBO ramp space to support a fleet beyond a given size. Unless NJA starts buying airports, we will run out of ramp before we run out of available buyers.

Fleet revenue? Big secret, but comfortably into the Billions. The latest a/c purchase was

30 Falcons at +$1 Billion.http://www.dassault-aviation.com/fil...E_May_2008.pdf

and

40 Gulfstreams at $1.9 Billion NetJets Inc. Signs $1.9 Billion Deal with Gulfstream; Company to Add Additional G450s and G550s to Its Fleet | Business Wire | Find Articles at BNET

and

96 Citation aircraft totaling more than $1 billion Textron's Cessna Books NetJets Order Totaling More Than $1 Billion | Business Wire | Find Articles at BNET

Last edited by NJA Capt; 09-01-2008 at 01:08 PM.
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Old 09-01-2008, 02:50 PM   #79  
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Here's another one for you 757. NetJets parent company is Berkshire Hathaway. 2007 Revenue: $118.2 billion, 2006 Revenue: $98.5 billion. A market cap of $180.6 billion. As far as NetJets' companies: Executive Jet Management, NetJets Aviation, NetJets International, NetJets Large Aircraft, NetJets Europe and NetJets Middle East. So yeah we are just getting our feet wet, wish us luck.

Last edited by arjmjj; 09-01-2008 at 03:12 PM.
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Old 09-01-2008, 04:13 PM   #80  
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Here's another one for you 757. NetJets parent company is Berkshire Hathaway. 2007 Revenue: $118.2 billion, 2006 Revenue: $98.5 billion. A market cap of $180.6 billion. As far as NetJets' companies: Executive Jet Management, NetJets Aviation, NetJets International, NetJets Large Aircraft, NetJets Europe and NetJets Middle East. So yeah we are just getting our feet wet, wish us luck.

The companies core business generates that much money, fantastic. All those separate companies that they can grow, fantastic, or sell or xfer stuff between.
By the way I am am a share holder, so I am familiar with Netjets .

Remember, once upon a time they and he also owned a big chunk of USAir.


Wish you guys the best of luck.
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