III Corps

that remains to be seen...

I was not under any impression XO was owned by TPG but Bonderman didn't put $363mil into the company just to be silent. And he brought his attack dog with him. My point is just be very wary.

I would debate that in that casual customers flying on cheap fares may not care about service but repeat and business customers do and they vote with their feet and their $$$.

I've done military, part 135, part 121 and back now in Part 91 and in each case my 'customer' had high expectations including the ground troops asking for air support. And in each community, I took it as part of my responsibility to meet and exceed their expectations. And as part of my crew briefing, I asked the crew to make sure we exceeded all expectations.. that we were the face of the carrier and for 3-4 days we would wow the crowd. A few exceptions aside, most crews agreed to put aside the crap that was happening and give the customer more than they had bargained for. the result was a lot of thanks and lots of good letters. Truth be told though.. we did it for personal standards, not so much for the company.

You may be surprised at what a board will stand for if they think there is some additional money to be made. And I doubt Siegel will try to dramatically change the company but over time, be very careful about the erosion.
And by him merely being there, the culture has changed.

Just remember, Davie is not your friend.If he doesn't already know it, he will soon have a snapshot of his employees, where they live and that will tell him all he needs to know about your cost of living, where you kids go to school, what type car you probably drive... he will have a detailed picture of you and where he can squeeze.

"...you know.. times are tough... market is down... we need 20+% to make sure we can continue to meet our standards.. and if we don't get it, we will have to start laying off some people and deferring airplanes." You don't want your friend Bob and Harry to hit the streets. Davie says 'gotta have 20+% and you tell him, "Can't do 20% Davie", then when negotiations are over and it is only 10-15%, you, your friends Bob and Harry still have jobs and some will think they won when the truth is Davie was just being Davie...

Just be aware... very aware.

757upspilot

This post reflects a great deal of experience and is spot on. The XO pilots should be moving to protect themselves.

XOpilot

My mistake. It seemed in your earlier posts you were alluding that Bonderman was pulling the strings.

On a side note, I have flown and chatted with Mr. Bonderman on several occasions. He's great, and he seems to buy into Paul's vision about the company taking care of the employees, the employees taking care of the customer, and the customer taking care of the stockholders. It is far more than lip service around here, and you can't argue with the results so far.

Well, I certainly agree that most people care about service. The questions is whether or not they are willing to pay for it. Most businesses are now looking for the cheapest fares for their employees, and though I don't consider myself exactly frugal, I do search fares based on price not schedule or airline.


You sound like a true professional. It's unfortunate you have such a strong feelings about Siegel. You sound like the kind of guy who would fit right in around here.

Also, sincerely, thank you for your service to this country.


Well, that is precisely the point I've been trying to make. Despite your personal standards, many guys may not be able to maintain your high level of professionalism. I've seen it firsthand. As a preferred provider, we used to do a ton sell off charter for Netjets during their contract negotiations. Trust me that situation impacted their customers, and it cost the company tens of millions in sell offs. It's was penny wise and pound foolish.

Ask any Flight Options Owner if all is well at Options these days. It's impossible for these situations not to affect the customer, and we can't afford that.

Things are good here. In fact, I challenge anyone to find a happier pilot group anywhere, or one that takes more personal pride and responsibility for making each passenger feel welcome, special, and well cared for. What's that worth?

We do not work on the same slim profit margin the airlines do. Our industry affords the ability to provide a good rate of return for our investors, and take good care of our employees. The best part is that we can do both and still save our customers 20 percent. It's a win, win, win! Why risk screwing it up?


Trust me. Our eyes are all wide open!

III Corps

Thanks for the compliment. I should retract the comment about him being a dirtbag. I have never met him so my remarks may be incorrect. I do know his history and am very skeptical of him changing his stripes.

When we went through the various treks at USAir, each time a new honcho arrived, everyone prayed, hoped, wished, believed we had found someone with THE compass that would lead us out of the desert. And each new honcho got about 6-12 months before the reality set in.

I met Wolf while he was honcho and you never met a slicker, more polished guy.. big hands to gesture with, resplendent in his attire and soft spoken as though he had done Toast Masters to get your attention. But one nefarious SOB who would tell you one thing while doing the opposite. At that point I began to just sit back and wait.. disregarding the hype and press and waiting to see what he actually did.

The O2A was a real piece of work but the job of a FAC was one of the best jobs I ever had. "here's your area, here's where the good guys are.. here's where the bad guys are.. don't mix up the two and you're running the show." Everything from troops in contact, med-evacs, adjusting artillery, flying combat patrol over convoys..

That is unfortunate. It wasn't my standard as such but it was just that I knew how I would want to be treated and went from there. It was kind of amazing that if you let the crew brief turn into a ***** session, things often went to hell for the whole trip.

I fly a Citation now for a Part 91 operation. Salary is not scale but the people we work for are really nice guys. We have a schedule w/ no beeper. the schedule can and does sometimes adjust but we take care of each other. And.. even though these guys are making north of a million a year, I have never had any of them point to their watch and say 'we have to be there.' We had a situation last year w/ low ceilings and moderate freezing rain. Pax now come to the airplane well aware of local and destination wx so there is no bullsh*tting anyone about what is going on. I explained that we could make it in with the low ceilings but the moderate freezing rain posed possible significant problems if they were still there on our arrival. They said, "Fine.. let's try again tomorrow."

I wish the best to you guys and glad you have it good. Just hope it stays that way.

topgun

XOJET is a rocketship!
Lots of fanfare on the launch pad, lots of press from good PR. people. Then comes the all the noise and smoke followed by quiet as it proceeds out of sight!!!

The XOJET model is nothing unique. All the fractionals are bucking for the same customers. The fractional owner is smart. This is not a time in this economy to take risk and sign up with a start up. Charter and fractionals are down 30%. Not the time for a new kid on the block.

The financing is not for the operation, it is for the aircraft. They signed the large order contract when delivered aircraft were bringing a premium. Now aircraft are plentiful, customers scarce.

The rocket is on the pad, the clock has started, the crowd has gathered and here comes the smoke and noise!!!

XOpilot

Top,

Now that's an entertaining story! I love rockets!

Thanks for your insight. I suppose I should go lock up now. Please be sure to let us know when you think the time is more acceptable for us new kids to get started. We'll all just go hang out at the soda shop and wait to hear from you.

Even though your story is interesting, I'm just curious if you are trying to convince us or yourself? While you ponder that, also ask yourself why we are accelerating our CL300 deliveries? Oh yeah, I forgot. We're just those silly new kids on the block. What do we know?

Jee whiz, I'm sorry to hear customers are scarce where you big boys work. Perhaps they all have come out to see the launch?

Maybe everyone loves rockets!

rotorhead1026

Regarding Siegel, III Corps said:

I have met him. Don't retract your comment.


Agreed.

They're both basically economic terrorists. "Give me what I want or I'll break up what you have. Makes no difference to me - I'll cut expenses one way or another". And the BOD, the banks, the courts and the lawmakers all sit back and watch. Keeps ticket prices low and the voters happy. Bread and circuses ...

(I'm not as bitter as this sounds - just the facts as I see 'em).

FalconFlyer

I love rockets too! I think everyone likes them...

NorskAir

Siegel is nothing but Frank Lorenzo in a different suit....
He is pretty out of touch with reality, I wish you guys luck.

topgun

Don't head for the soda shop. Stick around and enjoy the launch!
Why are the CL300 available? Because customers that ordered them 3 years ago and made large progress payments cannot afford them now.

How is XOJet any different formthe rest? A different type of aircraft?-No
A unique product?-No, we are still just moving people from A to B on their schedule. Lower upfront cost?- No, all the fractionals offer a similar aircraft at a price dictated by the original equipment manufacturer. All place large orders, all receive similar discounts. Several are type launch customers and get a much larger discount. This is not the case for XOJET. The Ciataion X and CL300 were around long befoe the XOJET order.

Customer service? Yes XOJET may have a chance here. New aircraft, fresh crews, but without the support of a strong management team, superior maintenance and a strong operational balance sheet, the foundation starts to crumble under even the best of flight crews.

I wish them the best of luck luck but see it for what it is. A shiny rocket on a stormy day with a small launch window! Remember the rocket is not the star of the show. The real star is the unique mission it performs that few others can duplicate.