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Citation Shares Furloughs 30

Old 12-18-2008, 07:13 AM
  #31  
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Post What's next....?!?!?!?!?

Originally Posted by Part135 Guy View Post
Know what, UCLA does have a point... I have flown with many "double-dippers" who chat away the time about their 2-3 homes, toys in the garage/hangar, marriages that would only survive if they were gone half the time, 1.1 million lump from DAL, etc., etc., etc. These folks could easily retire... and don't give me the sob story about their funds taking a massive hit, because I don't have any sympathy. In fact, it's a BS excuse and you all know it. You can't tell me that if you were to retire today, even having taken a hit on your retirement funds that you wouldn't be able to recoupe most of it once the economy turns around (and it will). You are not going to deplete your entire retirement in the 12-18 months (my estimation) that it takes for things to get better and for you to gain your losses back. So what if it means that instead of living off of 12 grand per month you only get to draw 9G's until things recover. Most of us nowadays won't even know what that is like when we are ready to retire because the lucrative pay/retirement you folks earned doesn't exisit any more. There are guys out there that are likely to lose their homes over these furloughs, because, in case you haven't noticed (and you selfish pr!cks probably haven't) THERE ARE NO JOBS TO BE HAD IF WE LOSE THE ONE THAT WE HAVE! Your children are grown and gone, the home is mostly paid for (shame on you if it isn't), and all you have to worry about is the bill from the local country club. Younger guys are concerned with feeding their families..... I hope you can sleep well at night.

Unfortunately, it seems that we have our work cut out for us in reversing the it's all about me because the world owes me generation.
Hey part 135 guy, what's next? If you get hired on with a major are you going to bit*&ch about being on reserve, having to work holidays because you are junior? Are you going to demand that senior guys give up their hard earned privelages afforded by their seniority and work your thanksgiving or xmas for you because you are young, have a family?

your post is full of ludicrous assumptions that only delineate a hissy fit! Do you mean to shame anyone who's home isnt paid for or mostly paid for? That statement shows your incredible ignorance! Perhaps while you were still on the breast some of these guys lost it all or most of it with earlier bankruptcies? (Eastern, Pan Am, Braniff, TWA etc). Perhaps those were junior guys and are now senior guys at todays survivors. Perhaps there were refinances that had to take place to save a home, send kids to college, move for another job etc......

You see this isnt the first time that the industry is in the ****ter, nor will it be the last. The difference between then and now is that then it took alot of hard work and sacrifice (read many years) to get to the right seat of a jet, and so there was a sense of accomplishment and gratitude to have made it to that level. Today, when a kid gets his college paid for by his parents and then rides his "due" ab initio slot into the right seat of an RJ, he doesnt have the same sense of accomplishment that previous generations had because in essense all you had to do was do well in school and training and it was waiting for you. And now when you get into ther real world of possible furloughs you come to find that your seat is in real jeopardy due to economic conditions beyond any line pilots control. So I understand why you may feel shocked when the fast track doesnt guarantee that you keep your job over those who have been in your shoes before you and have suffered like you are now. Its a part of paying your dues.

Now there could be some guys out there who have had an easy and fortunate career and are making top dollar in the left seat of a heavy. He/she may have 2 houses, and many toys and want to ride it out to 65.
If your sense of accomplishment, success and ability for you to support your family depends on their leaving, then I feel sorry for you. Those should be things that you and only you control. Redirect your jealouse and resentful energies into discovering your own personal fire and drive within. One that says something like, no matter what happens in this industry I will perservere and succeed. My success is INDEPENDENT of what anyone else does. When you encounter a great stick inthe left seat, take notes and listening intently for what you could learn cannot and will never be taught in any classroom. Should you encounter a real jerk in the left seat who is very authoritative and boasts about his houses and toys....then also take that as a very good lesson on how NOT to do it, and how not to carry yourself. (I have several class A jerks who I am very grateful to to have shown me, how not to do it).

Point is, you had to have had "a real deep personal reslove" to have maded it through a checkride. It is that very same effort that will carry you to that left seat of a heavy or whatever it is that you yearn for. The challenge is that you have to have "it" and maintain it for your career, which forces you to examine why you got into this career in the frist place!

My hope is that you and anyone else that feels wronged will have that "looksy" within because there and only there will you find it. This may sound like a bunch of *&^%$# to you, but I will be willing to bet a months salary that anyone close to 60 would say that their personal resolve and or passion for flying is what made it possible for them to stick it out to enjoy that seniority or left seat. *****ing or sense of entitlement got them nothing.
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Old 12-18-2008, 08:54 AM
  #32  
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Very well said cac737!!! I'm in my twenties, and even though times are tough right now, I know my time to shine is comming. We will all get our extra five years. Its just tough right now. Just gotta suck it up for now. What else are ya going to do about it.

Happy Holidays.
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Old 12-18-2008, 01:06 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by cargo hopeful View Post
Holy crap I can’t believe it, Citation Shares furloughs! Wow, what a year this has been! It was a total shock when I saw Airnet furlough earlier this year and now this! Well there goes that theory that fractional and cargo is the safest. I guess there is no such thing. The only thing that matters is LUCK (having a high enough seniority number in the company to avoid a furlough).
From what I've heard Airnet's troubles stem from the Check 21 legislation a few years back. They seem to be trying to shift from banking to medical transport, but their troubles may not be over.
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Old 12-18-2008, 01:28 PM
  #34  
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cac737, I think that you are off base. There are undoubtedly some "ab initio types" out there, but I think that many of them have been weeded out by this point. Most of the people in the industry by this point, in my experience anyway, are veterans of at least one airline (with the exception of the regional one-company guys).

I do think that your comments hold true for society at large. We have been so prosperous for so long that we've lost much of our drive and replaced it with a sense of entitlement. In a sense, the credit crunch may be good for our national psyche. With the absence of easy credit, we will be forced to work and save for what we want, rather than just charging it. That is not to say that the adjustment will be easy or pleasant.

about me:
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3 jet companies
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3 careers
2 kids
1 wife
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Old 12-18-2008, 04:36 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by captainkudzu View Post
cac737, I think that you are off base. There are undoubtedly some "ab initio types" out there, but I think that many of them have been weeded out by this point. Most of the people in the industry by this point, in my experience anyway, are veterans of at least one airline (with the exception of the regional one-company guys).

I do think that your comments hold true for society at large. We have been so prosperous for so long that we've lost much of our drive and replaced it with a sense of entitlement. In a sense, the credit crunch may be good for our national psyche. With the absence of easy credit, we will be forced to work and save for what we want, rather than just charging it. That is not to say that the adjustment will be easy or pleasant.

about me:
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3 jet companies
1 furlough
3 careers
2 kids
1 wife


Captain K;

I admit that my posts have been cast with a very wide net while perhaps aimed directly at the "fast track guys". For one, I hold no ill will towards them, I consider them blessed and with very good timing (luck). Unfortunately many don't feel that way and hold some sort of grudge especially towards those that lack some professionalism that comes with seasoning.

They are still around and doing very well btw. I know of one who was blessed to have his dad be the CP at a corporate outfit and got the right seat of a challenger right out of school and made left seat before he was 30!
He kept his mouth shut, learned very quickly, remained humble and got to where he is now due to his work ethic which even earned his peer's respect. I wish there were alot more like him!

I agree with your assessment of the overall "big picture", perhaps those that still 'Dont get it" will once they lose their right seat in a jet and have to go back to something with props.

Best of luck to us all!
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Old 12-18-2008, 06:47 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by captainkudzu View Post
about me:
37
3 jet companies
1 furlough
3 careers
2 kids
1 wife
1 wife? She must be saint (as are all our wives!) to put up with this industry we seem to love! Get her a nice Christmas gift.
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Old 12-19-2008, 12:59 PM
  #37  
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Absolutely. She predates my flying career BTW. I don't know how single guys and gals have enough time for a career and a relationship.

We find that the 7 on-7 off works good for us. We honeymoon when I'm home and when we start to get tired of each other, I leave for a week.
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Old 12-20-2008, 02:10 AM
  #38  
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So do the pilots who resent the guys over age 60 that still fly, will they step done at age 60 so younger pilots get a shot at a career?
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Old 12-20-2008, 07:16 AM
  #39  
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Smile Over age 60

<P>I am a pilot over the age of 60.&nbsp; I have had a good career, BUT.&nbsp; i have been with 5 airlines, 9 furloughs, 2 home foreclosures, and my cars reposessed&nbsp;, had a son born with multiple health problems with no insurance.&nbsp; i then retired only to see my pension cut by 80%, my mother needing to be placed in an assisted living facility at a cost of 4000 a month.&nbsp; So here i am along with my wife back at work.&nbsp; <IMG alt=0 src="http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border=0 smilieid="1"><IMG alt=0 src="http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif" border=0 smilieid="3"><IMG alt=0 src="http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/smilies/eek.gif" border=0 smilieid="9"><IMG alt=0 src="http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/smilies/confused.gif" border=0 smilieid="10"></P>
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Old 12-20-2008, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by captainkudzu View Post
Absolutely. She predates my flying career BTW. I don't know how single guys and gals have enough time for a career and a relationship.

We find that the 7 on-7 off works good for us. We honeymoon when I'm home and when we start to get tired of each other, I leave for a week.
I love it. The key to a happy marriage: get out of town!

Does that monkey ever reload?
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