Tweet46

Saw this on another site. Effective 22 December...ouch. My thoughts are with those without a job.

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UCLAbruins

EFFECTIVE DECEMBER 22. (Just look at the date), I understand management wants to save money to keep the company afloat, but at least wait until January, or even the day after Christmas for crying out loud...........

NZNV

Do they get a severance package? It may not be a pay cut off on the 22nd.

UCLAbruins

No idea, I don't work for them. I'm wondering if this was done by seniority or merit as well.

EXTW

There are two programs that will be available to the pilot group. One is a Voluntary Leave of Absence. The other is an Opt-Out program where there will be a formula based on years of service for a lump-sum payout and "additional benefits". The deadline to participate in either program will be Dec 19.

The Dec 22 date is when the notification goes out to the pilots who will be affected by furlough. That is the date they will find out their expected furlough date. All furloughs will be in inverse seniority order.

Hope this clears it up a little.


EXTW

jetjockee

Does CS have a Union?

UCLAbruins

Oh I see what's going on, kind of a nice way of letting your old guys know that maybe its time to call it quits.

This is a very sensitive issue for me, and if my message gets deleted or I get flamed, so be it. I can handle a flaming..... It really gets me under my skin when these old guys (64,65+) refuse to retire..... If you need the money, then that's OK. But if your here because you "you miss flying" or "the wife drives you crazy" then shame on you. You already had your career, there are a lot of younger pilots from the military and/or regionals trying to get on with the frax so they can have a career and support a family. Let those guys have theirs

Sorry about the rant, but it makes me mad when young guys with families to feed get furloughed, and these old guys (the financially secured) keep flying because its their "passion".

go ahead, flame away

flyguy37

AMEN. I think you get rid of all those guys and no one would be furloughed at 90 percent of the current aviation companies. If you hate your wife divorce her and if you are just bored get a freaking hobby. I am tired of flying with guys who ***** about their wife their 3 or 4 houses, boats and talk about the good old days. RETIRE

EXTW

UCLA,

I understand what you're saying. However, if there is no mandatory retirement, then it is a personal choice as long as they can maintain a medical. I'm not agreeing, I'm just accepting the facts as they are. Unfortunately, when we accept a job under a seniority based system, we are subject to the good and the bad of a seniority based system. I don't believe it is right to bring the morality of someone's decision to stay or retire, into the big picture.

EXTW

BTW I was hired during the "merit system" days, and it was one of the selling points for me to accept the job. However, times change and we all must adapt.

cac737

Now why on earth would someone's PASSION get under your skin? When you were born, did your mother tell you that you were entitled to things at a certain point in your life? Are you from the "zero to right seat of an RJ in 50 hours" ab initio training generation? How does an old guy staying in the cockpit interfere with a young guy getting theirs?

Now before you think Im an "old guy" (i might be to you), this is my profile:
33 years old. been the victim of 3 furloughs with different airlines that dont exist anymore. one actually owed me several thousand $$$ for line flying that i never saw a dime of, because they shut down upbruptly. I have been flying for 15 years and havent been able to hold a job longer than 4 years (furloughs).

I dont begrudge anyone choosing to stay on past 65. My only concern is their "abilities" at that age, and about 98% of those i have flown with at those ages have been some of the finest sticks i have ever had the privelage of flying with and learning from! Someday i will be over 60 and if I should still have the passion for flying then as i do now, you can bet your ass I will still be plowing the skies around the world!

My advice to you is to redirect your focus and frustrations at "not getting yours" to an industry that still holds on to archaic and no longer relevant business models. As long as they current landscape doesnt change you can expect more pain before you will get to a point where your seniority will protect you from losing your job save for a company shutdown.

I have one question before i end this, when you get to be say 50, and your airline or company tells its rank and file, we can either furlough the back end of the list or everyone will have to take a 35% paycut right up to seniority #1 to keep the bottom half on the payroll, what would you vote?

I am willing to bet a day's salary that you wouldnt flinch before voting to furlough, since you would be darned if after putting in your dues and time and scratching and clawing your way to a pretty good seniority position, plane, salary and quality of life, you would be expected to give up 35% of that for a kid who just got hired at an age before he can even buy a drink and probably still gets subsidies from his parents (still lives with them).

Grow up, change your attitude and you might be priveleged to learn something from someone who has been there and done that. Chances are they would be delighted to pass on some hard earned "pointers" before they hang it up. Boy will life slap you hard in the face when some young un tells you to get the %$# out when youre old so they can have theirs!